Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 09:28:30 -0400
Reply-To: Paul Smith <paulwithwesty@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Paul Smith <paulwithwesty@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Water Pump Replacement
In-Reply-To: <16b901cc265f$0280dd10$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Thanks for the very good information. The last water pump I did was on a
Volvo 240, not too difficult as I recall. This looks a good deal more
"challenging". I was just out staring at the water pump assembly and area. I
seem to recall reading somewhere in the list archives that the allen bolts
are 6mm - if so I'll go get a new 6mm allen head bit, maybe I can find a set
of several sizes. I also am wondering about the pipe that goes under the
crank pulley (as Scott mentioned). If I undo the hose bit on the other side
of the crank pulley, can I get more play on the pipe, or is that required in
any case?
Thanks again for the info.
Cheers - Paul
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> Hi Paul,
> I just did that job last night..
> - replace water pump on a 2.1 waterboxer with AC.
>
> I've done the job 20 times at least,
> I have various trick tools, and lots of tricks. So not like I haven't done
> it a lot before.
> And I have done hundreds of water pump replacement jobs in my career, on
> all kinds of cars.
> With a doubt,
> to do it 'in place' ...it is the hardest water pump job you're ever going
> to do.
> They did not plan much at all for it being done with engine in the van , or
> crankshaft pulley on the engine.
> it's doable. ...'just' doable.
> Each bolt holding the metal pipe on, on the left.. - each one had been
> installed gorilla tight, with bare metal-to-metal threads ..so almost rusted
> in place.
> and each one took about 5 seperate attempts to get it out without stripping
> out the 6 pt. allen part.
> And the allens on the pipe on the right ...same deal .....each one was a
> separate struggle in itself..not just in access, but in danger of stripping
> out the allen part of the screw. Plus thee were in hyper tight on dry
> metal-to-metal threads ....just trying to rust.
> Then....
> the 3 nuts that secure the w. pump onto the block..
> the lower left one was hidden behind oil cooler hoses, so that meant
> removing oil filter and lowering the oil cooler down a bit...that was the
> only part of the job that was 'just remove a fastner and a part'.
> So getting that far ..took a good couple of hours..
> and here's the crowning 'gotcha' of the whole job..
> even after the pipe on the lower right is unbolted from the w. pump ..
> and the water pump securing 3 nuts are removed
> and the hose on the right end of the right side pipe is loose to the pipe
> can move out of the way to get the w. pump off the 3 studs it sits on ..
> The pipe is badly captured by the crankshaft pulley ..
> and the water pump is captured by that pipe.
> The big pulley isn't easily get removed or big bolt loosened with engine
> fully installed in the van ..
> you'd have to start messin' with muffler tin, lower the rear of the engine
> , etc.
> or a tricky tool to reach the big bolt.
> Maybe even muffler off to get at that big bolt..
> so ..
> to do it wiithout removing the big pully ..
> you can barely jam.....after about 15 tries ..the water pump past the pipe
> there.
> It was a solid 2 1/2 hours to get the old pump finally off the damn
> engine !
> had to loosen AC compressor to get that belt out of the way ..
> and same for power steering ..helped to have that belt out of the way ..
> but those are not hard..
> and it would be 5 times easier if the w. pump was secured to the block
> with bolts rather than nuts on studs.
> putting the new one in, had to physcially force it past that lower right
> side pipe ..
> like pry with a bar.
>
> I told the people it would take 5 hours ..
> it doesn't 'look' that hard just glancing in there ..
> but .....it did, it took 5 hard hours to do that job completely and
> properly. More than that even.
> It's so bad it's a joke.
> it was never really intended to be replaced with engine completly in the
> van .
> it's possible, but a real struggle.
> if one of those allen screws had stripped out ..
> we woulda been lowering the back of the engine, removing stuff from the
> engine for access..
> that would have pushed it to 6 or 7 or even more, hours of not very fun
> work.
>
> and for anyone reading..
> please, very few fasteners should be installed bare metal-to-metal at the
> threads.
> Either anti-seize compound..
> or ..this works super well, I put red Permatex High tach on the bolt
> threads..
> it' sticks 'em there , like anti-vibation ..
> and it prevents rusting of the theads...and screws and bolts used in nasty
> place like cooling sysetem parts.............come out as sweetly as could be
> year later.
> Teflon paste from the hardware store also works very well..
> same benefits, and the bolts come out years later just fine.
>
> same for spark plugs ..
> they want copper or aluminum anti-seize compound on their threads. In my
> world, bone dry spark plug threads is just plain very bad workmanship. Rare
> is the day that I find any sparkplugs installed with anything on the
> threads, unless I did it myself.
>
> to me, on very few threaded fasteners is the spec 'bare metal' .
> With few exceptions, all threads like something on them.
> varies by what it is ..
> but ...for example..
> engine oil,
> lock- tite,
> red permatex hight tach gasket sealer,
> teflon paste,
> copper or aluminum anti-seize etc...
>
> that water pump job took LOTS longer than it need to, since all the
> fasteners were badly overtighted, and bone dry threads.
> ( and I won't mention the extensive use of cheap american small # 4 hose
> clamps, everywhere, like on the fuel hoses ...or the spark plug boot that
> was trying to rub through an uncovereed fuel hose ..
> or old fuel hose being used in part of the cooling system, which made that
> hose brittle and crumbly ..causing a leak.
> This is all too typical on vanagons that I see ..really careless and sloppy
> work, sorry to say. )
>
> Do the best work you can, I suggest.
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Smith" <paulwithwesty@GMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 6:40 PM
> Subject: Water Pump Replacement
>
>
>
> Hello,
>>
>> Over the past few months I've noticed that my coolant level has started
>> dropping, when previously it barely ever did. Finally tracked the leak
>> down
>> because it got worse. Its dripping out of the little drain/weep hole on
>> the
>> water pump, so a water pump replacement is in order. I determined that the
>> leak was from the weep hole by placing a little cloth wrapped to the end
>> of
>> a dowel and running the engine while I pressed the cloth/dowel up against
>> the pump hole. The dripping stopped and the cloth got soaked with coolant.
>> The PO replaced the engine with a rebuilt (from Boston Engine) about
>> 52,000
>> miles ago, so I imagine the water pump was new then. The hoses, pipes, and
>> clamps look to be in good condition also, so likely all were replaced then
>> as well.
>> I'm looking for any advice, things to watch for, ways to manage the tight
>> confines, etc. I've done some work on my Westy (89 2wd, with AC) and I
>> have
>> a "normal" set of tools. I replaced the water pump belt about 3,000 miles
>> ago (and once before that), try to carefully set tension to spec so as not
>> to over-stress the water or power steering pump bearings. Things do look
>> tight in there, hopefully I can swing the AC compressor up a little bit
>> once
>> the belts are off. Any tips or advice would be welcome. On the other hand,
>> if you think its better handled by a qualified and equipped mechanic, then
>> let me know that also.
>>
>> Cheers - Paul
>>
>
>
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