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Date:         Thu, 9 Jun 2011 08:09:46 -0700
Reply-To:     Roland <syncronicity1@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Roland <syncronicity1@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Water Pump Replacement
In-Reply-To:  <BANLkTikkWcokq491rt2LwrL_G_01n48exQ@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi Paul,

I am only average on some of these mechanical repairs, but I managed to to put in a water pump on the 2.1 a couple of years ago. Like Scott said, it is a real pain.

- yes, the cross over pipe that goes to the right is awful, but somehow I managed to wiggle it out of the way enough with the pulley in place to get the water pump to clear this pipe. I think I must have wiggled it for 15 minutes here and there to find the right alignment to get it out of the way far enough.

- I left the distributor in, even though some of the advice is to remove it. The AC has to be fully out of the way.

- As you mentioned make sure to have allen wrenches for a socket set, I have an assortment, much better than those less usable 90 degree allen wrenches.

- Only hangup (besides lots of fiddling) was I needed a thin walled socket. There is one nut securing the water pump where the clearance between the nut and the water pump body is really narrow. A standard socket would not fit over the nut, so I had to run out to Sears and get a thin walled socket. I just looked in the tool box, and there are 2 thin walled sockets there: 13 and 15 mm, sorry I can't recall the size of this one, but I am guessing 13 mm since I recall they were pretty small nuts.

But it was a very nice emotional accomplishment. I recall estimates of $400 - $500 from the nearby shops, and I had a new water pump in the parts box, so my cost ended up probably $20 for the socket, misc. stuff, and some beer! And it has held up for a couple of years now with no leaks. It took me probably 5-6 hours, but I work slow and methodically on some of these things. I made a list of each thing I removed, with notes, as I went along, to enhance the probability of putting it all together again in the reverse order. I figure Scott can probably do this in about 5 minutes if he had a 2.1 without rust and corrosion :).

Roland

On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 6:28 AM, Paul Smith <paulwithwesty@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks for the very good information. The last water pump I did was on a > Volvo 240, not too difficult as I recall. This looks a good deal more > "challenging". I was just out staring at the water pump assembly and area. > I > seem to recall reading somewhere in the list archives that the allen bolts > are 6mm - if so I'll go get a new 6mm allen head bit, maybe I can find a > set > of several sizes. I also am wondering about the pipe that goes under the > crank pulley (as Scott mentioned). If I undo the hose bit on the other side > of the crank pulley, can I get more play on the pipe, or is that required > in > any case? > Thanks again for the info. > Cheers - Paul > > On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 12:37 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans < > scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: > > > Hi Paul, > > I just did that job last night.. > > - replace water pump on a 2.1 waterboxer with AC. > > > > I've done the job 20 times at least, > > I have various trick tools, and lots of tricks. So not like I haven't > done > > it a lot before. > > And I have done hundreds of water pump replacement jobs in my career, on > > all kinds of cars. > > With a doubt, > > to do it 'in place' ...it is the hardest water pump job you're ever > going > > to do. > > They did not plan much at all for it being done with engine in the van , > or > > crankshaft pulley on the engine. > > it's doable. ...'just' doable. > > Each bolt holding the metal pipe on, on the left.. - each one had been > > installed gorilla tight, with bare metal-to-metal threads ..so almost > rusted > > in place. > > and each one took about 5 seperate attempts to get it out without > stripping > > out the 6 pt. allen part. > > And the allens on the pipe on the right ...same deal .....each one was a > > separate struggle in itself..not just in access, but in danger of > stripping > > out the allen part of the screw. Plus thee were in hyper tight on dry > > metal-to-metal threads ....just trying to rust. > > Then.... > > the 3 nuts that secure the w. pump onto the block.. > > the lower left one was hidden behind oil cooler hoses, so that meant > > removing oil filter and lowering the oil cooler down a bit...that was the > > only part of the job that was 'just remove a fastner and a part'. > > So getting that far ..took a good couple of hours.. > > and here's the crowning 'gotcha' of the whole job.. > > even after the pipe on the lower right is unbolted from the w. pump .. > > and the water pump securing 3 nuts are removed > > and the hose on the right end of the right side pipe is loose to the > pipe > > can move out of the way to get the w. pump off the 3 studs it sits on .. > > The pipe is badly captured by the crankshaft pulley .. > > and the water pump is captured by that pipe. > > The big pulley isn't easily get removed or big bolt loosened with > engine > > fully installed in the van .. > > you'd have to start messin' with muffler tin, lower the rear of the > engine > > , etc. > > or a tricky tool to reach the big bolt. > > Maybe even muffler off to get at that big bolt.. > > so .. > > to do it wiithout removing the big pully .. > > you can barely jam.....after about 15 tries ..the water pump past the > pipe > > there. > > It was a solid 2 1/2 hours to get the old pump finally off the damn > > engine ! > > had to loosen AC compressor to get that belt out of the way .. > > and same for power steering ..helped to have that belt out of the way .. > > but those are not hard.. > > and it would be 5 times easier if the w. pump was secured to the block > > with bolts rather than nuts on studs. > > putting the new one in, had to physcially force it past that lower right > > side pipe .. > > like pry with a bar. > > > > I told the people it would take 5 hours .. > > it doesn't 'look' that hard just glancing in there .. > > but .....it did, it took 5 hard hours to do that job completely and > > properly. More than that even. > > It's so bad it's a joke. > > it was never really intended to be replaced with engine completly in the > > van . > > it's possible, but a real struggle. > > if one of those allen screws had stripped out .. > > we woulda been lowering the back of the engine, removing stuff from the > > engine for access.. > > that would have pushed it to 6 or 7 or even more, hours of not very fun > > work. > > > > and for anyone reading.. > > please, very few fasteners should be installed bare metal-to-metal at the > > threads. > > Either anti-seize compound.. > > or ..this works super well, I put red Permatex High tach on the bolt > > threads.. > > it' sticks 'em there , like anti-vibation .. > > and it prevents rusting of the theads...and screws and bolts used in > nasty > > place like cooling sysetem parts.............come out as sweetly as could > be > > year later. > > Teflon paste from the hardware store also works very well.. > > same benefits, and the bolts come out years later just fine. > > > > same for spark plugs .. > > they want copper or aluminum anti-seize compound on their threads. In my > > world, bone dry spark plug threads is just plain very bad workmanship. > Rare > > is the day that I find any sparkplugs installed with anything on the > > threads, unless I did it myself. > > > > to me, on very few threaded fasteners is the spec 'bare metal' . > > With few exceptions, all threads like something on them. > > varies by what it is .. > > but ...for example.. > > engine oil, > > lock- tite, > > red permatex hight tach gasket sealer, > > teflon paste, > > copper or aluminum anti-seize etc... > > > > that water pump job took LOTS longer than it need to, since all the > > fasteners were badly overtighted, and bone dry threads. > > ( and I won't mention the extensive use of cheap american small # 4 hose > > clamps, everywhere, like on the fuel hoses ...or the spark plug boot > that > > was trying to rub through an uncovereed fuel hose .. > > or old fuel hose being used in part of the cooling system, which made > that > > hose brittle and crumbly ..causing a leak. > > This is all too typical on vanagons that I see ..really careless and > sloppy > > work, sorry to say. ) > > > > Do the best work you can, I suggest. > > Scott > > www.turbovans.com > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Smith" <paulwithwesty@GMAIL.COM > > > > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > > Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 6:40 PM > > Subject: Water Pump Replacement > > > > > > > > Hello, > >> > >> Over the past few months I've noticed that my coolant level has started > >> dropping, when previously it barely ever did. Finally tracked the leak > >> down > >> because it got worse. Its dripping out of the little drain/weep hole on > >> the > >> water pump, so a water pump replacement is in order. I determined that > the > >> leak was from the weep hole by placing a little cloth wrapped to the end > >> of > >> a dowel and running the engine while I pressed the cloth/dowel up > against > >> the pump hole. The dripping stopped and the cloth got soaked with > coolant. > >> The PO replaced the engine with a rebuilt (from Boston Engine) about > >> 52,000 > >> miles ago, so I imagine the water pump was new then. The hoses, pipes, > and > >> clamps look to be in good condition also, so likely all were replaced > then > >> as well. > >> I'm looking for any advice, things to watch for, ways to manage the > tight > >> confines, etc. I've done some work on my Westy (89 2wd, with AC) and I > >> have > >> a "normal" set of tools. I replaced the water pump belt about 3,000 > miles > >> ago (and once before that), try to carefully set tension to spec so as > not > >> to over-stress the water or power steering pump bearings. Things do look > >> tight in there, hopefully I can swing the AC compressor up a little bit > >> once > >> the belts are off. Any tips or advice would be welcome. On the other > hand, > >> if you think its better handled by a qualified and equipped mechanic, > then > >> let me know that also. > >> > >> Cheers - Paul > >> > > > > >


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