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Date:         Sun, 3 Jul 2011 12:59:20 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Fireworks for the Fourth-in my engine bay
Comments: To: David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

this is really 'rich' !

re "the difference between atmospheric pressure and full regulated line pressure is maybe a teaspoonful "

How can you talk about a pressure difference, and then use a volume measurement in your explanation ?

That is not so kosher for such a geek tech guy.

if your point is that it barely takes any pre-running of the fuel pump to charge the lines.. say that. and we are not talking about 'pressure' .. we are talking about liquid gas in the lines first, or that's what I am talking about.

so maybe no pre-runs of the pump is enough. or maybe only one is.

but I can tell you this for sure .. if you are starting with empty fuel lines , or ones that have been opened up .. and you pre-run the fuel pump by cycling the ignition key , and do that several time, .. you will be sure to have fuel at the injectors in the lines.

and it doesn't hurt one bit to do this. it's 'assurance' that there is fuel with sufficient pressure and volume at the injectors. only seems smart and logical to me.

I always appreciated the term 'in the trenches'. You'll see that in professional automotive repair trade magazines.

it refers to the day in and day out actual 'dirty, knuckle-skinned, hands on work' with cars.. all kinds of cars. The ugly nasty side of car repair. all kinds of starters that are filthy with yuck and hard to get out. all kinds of weird diagnostic situations.. the real 'grunt work' of auto repair.. the real 'not pleasant, not easy, not always direct and straightforward of what it really takes to fix cars.

so ...my methods tend to be very practical, somewhat 'shade tree low tech' ..very 'don't need exotic equipment' basic methods that regular people can use.. with a strong, strong emphasis on getting in there and figuring stuff out .. with whatever method works. Often just simple what I call 'substitute and bypass.' and usually with a 'gritty hands on the dirty van' way .. and not so much a theoretical or bench work way.

so .......cycling the key to run the fuel pump a few times to charge the lines after they've been open ..........that's just smart and logical. hell.. you might even learn something doing that ( like say a weird buzzing sound in the fuel lines...< just encountered that> ) that you might not know about otherwise.

there just is no substitute for hands on, listening, sensing, smelling...and gettin' in there with the dirty beast at times. that is how you get really good results fixing vanagons .. clever careful multi-dimensional work on them.

last thought.. kinda amusing ..or I try to have it be amusing. I see so often, 'my engine does this....what do people think it could be ? "

I'm like...'well, DID YOU LOOK ???? ' .. lol ! Here's one of my sayings too .. No amount of talking or emailing will substitute, really, for hands on inspection and reasonably intelligent diagnosis.

Ya can't fix it if ya don't get in there with the dirty beast, quite often !

and it doesn't hurt to pre-pressure the lines with the fuel pump .. and hey ...something else might reveal itself in that process as well. !

and..in that light ... I really don't think that a lot of people grasp what I call 'the basic abstraction' of learning all you can about what is going on with *the process itself*. like you take something apart ..or go in one direction ...and often that process REVEALS something that was not otherwise apparent. 90 % of it is really, in what I call the 'information gathering process.'

changing 'the faulty part' when there is one, is quite incidental to the overall process. People think it is 'the process' but it's not really.

You know who. www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "David Beierl" <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Sunday, July 03, 2011 10:15 AM Subject: Re: Fireworks for the Fourth-in my engine bay

> At 08:50 PM 7/2/2011, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote: >>did you cycle the fuel pump with the key about 10 times to pressurize the >>fuel lines before trying to fire it up ? >>that's only logical right ? > > > In that small volume of hose between the fuel pump and the fuel > pressure regulator, the difference between atmospheric pressure and > full regulated line pressure is maybe a teaspoonful (think of what > comes out when you open the fuel tee to attach a gauge). The pump > delivers a teaspoonful in three tenths of a second max - its minimum > delivery is one full (2WD) tankful per hour which gets circulated > through the fuel lines to keep them cool. > > Yours, > David


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