Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2011 21:18:07 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Tires again
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original
yes..
the larger tire on the slightly wider alloy 14 inch wheel is better..
but I have seen, and run, LOTS of 27 X 8.50 R14 LT's on stock steel wheel
rims.
so yes, being picky, the alloys are a tad better.
and ..all 2WD drive rear wheel vehicles can benefit from dedicated front and
rear tires.
all motorcyles are.
in Indy and Formula One racing csars ..
when they did not control tire sizes so much ..the rears were huge compared
to the fronts.
all drag racers have dedicated front and rear tires.
all porchses, corvetters, Vipers, and Ferrari's in modern times have
dedicated front and rear tires..
anhd actually..
dedicaed to each corner of the car, as they are directional too.
if the fronts are say 245/55 R17 ..
the rears will be 255/45 R17, or R18.
always 'more' in the rear.
you can't rotate front-to-back then of course, but I think the handlling
gain is worth it.
and ...check out the tire sticker on a 90 or 91 sycro ..
D's in the rear, C load rating tires in front.
and ...a slightly larger rear tire ( taller ) helps the gearing not be so
low.
and vanagons are rather undergeared cars.
happier at 60 to 65..
and too reved out at common freeway spees of 70 or so in top gear.
So some 'taller' on the rears is not bad.
you don't really want 'taller' per se though ..for the sake of gearing yes..
but for handling dynamics, no.
a customer showed up with a subie-88 Westy and brand new 205/70 R15 tires on
new 15 inch steel wheels.
I thought they sure looked tall.
the van sat an inch higher than normal.
seemed like it had taller springs..but they were stock pretty sure.
tires vary in acual size from brand to brand of course..
I though those Nokian 205/70 R15's where just too tall.
and except for the gear ratio assist, or if you think you need the ground
clearance..taller is not better especially.
oddly ..well not so odd considering the era..
My near museum grade 82 Sunroof Diesel vanagon ( for sale , big bucks )
lists a non-radial tire as one of three that are correct for that van.
a 7,00 X 14 ...at 38 psi front, 51 rear, something like that.
then it lists 185 R14 C , C load rating ( not all 185 R 14C's are C load
rating ..most are D )
then it lists 18R14 Reifroced.
at about 38 psi front, 51 rear.
I never go that high cold. Rides like a truck .
I worked on and drove an 84 GL one time..
with the used-to-be common Michelin LTX tires on it.
I don't know what it was about that van ..
the tires were a factor ...and maybe the shocks or alignment were extra spot
on ..but I wanted to drive that van in a power slide all the time..
it was exceptionally well handling.
like you felt like you couldn't get in trouble throwing it into a curve.
Felt quite magic.
really good handling cars..
older mercedes are like this..
for one thing........they'll carve through a curve full of pot holes ..
and the car will not devieate at all from where you tell it go ...totally
unruffled by any bumps or irregularities.
'just goes where you point it' ..
the steering is smooth .
the ride is smooth ..in good condition they'll just gobble up any bumps or
holes in road..
and most of all..
it doesn's matter too much what you do stupidly with the controls...
you could have it all hung out in a corner and nail the breaks fiercely ..
and it won't get distrubed , it'll just tighten the line and slow down.
same on the gas ...not overpowered anyway usually .
but no amount of stupidity with the gas pedal will upset it much either in a
curve.
you can throw an older mercedes violently into a corner ..say at 50 mph ...
it won't do anything but follow on around , pretty much.
vanagons can do that some, within limits.
it's harder to play with the available dynamic handling ..
it's masked by being such a large box ...but it's there, if you recognize it
and understand about performance driving.
it's subtle, but it's there.
and ..
same-same front and back tires is limiting. IF you care about dynamic
balance in straight line tracking, turn-in, and cornering.
or said another way, they do not have to be understeering pigs.
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rocket J Squirrel" <camping.elliott@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Tires again
> On Tue, 2011-07-05 at 18:14 -0500, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>> ---- David Beierl <dbeierl@attglobal.net> wrote:
>> > At 06:00 PM 7/5/2011, Dave Mcneely wrote:
>> > >Jack, when I bought my van, with stock 14" wheels, it had two
>> > >27x8.50R14 LT tires on the rear.
>> >
>> > If you've got the alloy wheels that's ok; but it's not good for the
>> > steel ones.
>>
>> I do have steel wheels, but I no longer have the tires. The van needed
>> new tires on the front, and I did not like the tires on the rear,
>> which were Cooper IIRC. I wanted to have five tires alike, and all
>> fitting the original specs, and I got Kuhmo tires. Discount Tire gave
>> me a good trade in on the two Cooper tires. Other places just said
>> that they didn't take trade ins. But the tires were on there. I
>> guess I was risking a tire popping the bead or something, but I did
>> not drive it very long with them. mcneely
>
> So it appears that running those 27x8.50R14 LT tires on the stock steel
> 14'' wheels is dodgy? Scott seems to feel differently about that.
>
> -- RJS
