Date: Sat, 2 Jul 2011 17:41:00 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Misfire when coasting?
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
hi peter,
you are driving with a broken header pipe on # 3.
you can do that if you want..
but that will...say, after a while, contribute to that exhaust valve wearing more or burning.
Never a good idea to operate a vanagon ( or any opposed vw engine ) with an exhaust leak.
heck..that is going to through off your oxygen sensor.
'it all matters' ..it all adds up. like there isn't much sense working on tune or 'misfire with a 'crack clean through a header pipe.'
Is your friend close to having a subaru TD running in a vanagon ?
as far as I know,
no one as cracked that code yet.
we'll see , eventually probably ..
how those engines work out.
I will say right here..
that is a *car* engine ..not designed for pushing a big van.
and ..
well surely a subaru TD engine will be better built than a vw one ..
but I can list off failure modes in VW pre-chamber engines pushing vanagons for many items.
VW pre-chamber diesel engines pushing vanagons are not super durable long lasting robust engines..
they work all right for a while..
I just went through four of them .
everything inside the engines was pretty much trashed.
and those also are *car* engines pushing big heavy vans.
and ..
PLEASE..DO US THIS FAVOR !
tell this to your friend.
that is am emissions engine ..please keep the emissions system intact !
diesel engines, uncontrolled old fashioned ones..
or more modern ones without their cat ..
but mainly old fashioned one ..
what comes out the tailpipe is highly poisonous and polluting.
Seriously ..
diesel engine without emmisson controls are deadly posonous. .
Don't even get me started.
they are a curse upon humanity. in terms of pollution....the racket and the environmental factors.
there are about 4 or 5 disadvantages with diesel engiens ..
in the case of VW pre-chamber ones .......about 20 serious disadvantages, compared to good ole gas..
and granted..
we do depend 100 % on 'the man' to get gasoline..
so that is risky for sure..
but as long as its available abundantnly at a reasonable cost..
gasoline is 10 times more pleasant to drive than diesel ...older ones espeically.
and ...I would love it if gas cost a whole lot more ( diesel too ) so people didn't stupidly drive monster oversized vehicles so much.
the cost savings in fuel on a diesel is an illusion.
that's the only part that does not cost a whole lot more than it does on gasoline engines.
I'm sure a few people spend big bucks getting a diesel vw engine that runs a long time and never fails and the injection pump never needs rebuilding, or turbo replacing etc..
and it pencils out to a net savings.
otherwise, I would guessitmate that 80 % of the time....long term, the lower fuel cost does not really save ..due to the expense of getting it in the first place, and expensive repairs over the long run.
we'll see how subaru diesel engines do ..
if they get running in vanagons.
And I will still hate the stink of the exhaust.
Just back up with your windows open..
that's what every bicyclist you pass has to put up with.
I'm not saying modern ones aren't better , they are.
hopefully anyway.
Diesels are cheaper at the fuel pump ..........but damage the earth and humans more than gasoline engines do.
maybe we'll be mostly electric soon..
not that making that juice does not have *major* downsides too, quite often.
what fun.
use 'em while we still can.
and vanagons rock !
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Lapp
To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Cc: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: Re: Misfire when coasting?
Wow, thanks for the detailed info. I got it as close as I could get it and still have it close every time. Tightening that one screw always moved it a bit, but I got it right after a few times. So far I haven't heard the same sort of misfire sound. Sometimes it can be deceiving because the header on the front, driver's side of the engine is that one with the header that is broken all the way through. So, when you're coasting, sometimes that's the only thing you can hear.
The AFM I have in there now is one I pulled off of a 1990 van at pullapart. I've still got my original too, so I should be in good shape there.
On the exhaust, I'm still deciding between Van-Cafe's kit and the SS one from Rocky Mountain Westy(tencentlife's design). If I place to keep rebuilt engines in it as long as I own it, then the SS makes more sense. Then again, a friend of mine imports Subaru diesel's from Japan, and I could get that for very cheap if I were to do a conversion.
I'll have to think about this some more.
-p
On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
I don't use any feeler gauges to adjust the throttle switch.
your goal is ..
it closes as close to zero throttle as you can get it,
and it makes contact every last time for sure.
if the switch closes far away from zero throttle..
you can get very uneven running at low rpm, bucking almost.
if it's running really right, not that you should..
they can pull smoothly from barely over 1,000 rpm.
though *everything* has to be near perfect for them to do that.
fwiw..
on an recent 84 with 1.9 wbxr ..
that van runs 'unevenly' during acceleration......which I attribute to a tired air flow meter.
it also had a history of cutting out / loosing power.
I put in a new Hall Sender.......a new coil. a new igniter. and a functioning Idle Stabilizer ( looking for a source for new ones ) ..
those 4 ignition parts ( and the very first thing I check on every waterboxer van I see is the throttle switch ..
fully half to 3/4ths of them are not working right , btw. )
so that's good on this van.
it ran so smoothly in the lower rpm ranges it was just amazing.
still has a bit of 'lumpiness' in the acceleration due to the AFM I believe..
but unusually smooth ..
you could drive around a corner and pull away from the corner at 1,500 rpm and light throttle just as smoothly as could be.
ideally ..
a new Air Flow Meter every 60,000 to 80,000 miles would be about right.
They usually run ..
but they get glitchy and uneven eventually. You can read all about that online of course.
there is an old rule in running diagnosis ..
from the carb era, but it still applies.
first ..engine condition - compression, vac leaks, etc.
second...ignition system ..everything about it, coil, wires, igniter , hall sender etc. etc. etc. etc.
and then, finally ..
and only after those two areas..
THEN work on fuel system.
it's like two fires intersect in the combustion chamber.
one is the spark,
the other is the fuel/air mixture.
if either is weak or not right ..
it can't work right or completely right.
since the ign is the first 'fire' that starts the real fire, or combustion event..
it only makes sense to make sure Ign is right first.
huge affect there.
if you convert an points ignition car to electronic ignition..
just that one change can significantly 'wake up' the car.
Better stronger starting, better throttle response etc.
it really pays to have very healthy ignition.
They can often work..
but I'd say ..roughly ..
in waterboxers, that often the Ignition is only working at about 75 % of what it once did.
which causes all kinds of problems.
that can even look like fuel problems.
and make idle switch close very close to zero throttle ..
and 'every last time' you release the throttle for sure . They tend to hang up a bit .
if that switch is not telling the ecu it's 'idle' ..
it can't work right.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Lapp" <carrothospital@GOOGLEMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 7:28 AM
Subject: Re: Misfire when coasting?
I unplugged the O2 sensor and adjusted the TPS. I didn't have my feeler
gauges with me, so I just roughed it, but it's better than before. It was a
bit out of alignment. It would click closed, but it would click when it
still had nearly a quarter inch gap at the stop screw. I tested the
resistance and it seemed to be fine. So far, I haven't heard the "misfire".
I may just need to drive it around some more and listen. Good thing I
decided to take a look, because I also discovered one of my plug wires that
decided to disintegrate. Another thing for the list!
Now to research more exhaust systems...
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 12:58 PM, Peter Lapp
<carrothospital@googlemail.com>wrote:
Well, you're right about that. I looked on cip1 and they are out of stock.
The Bus depot kit is cheaper than I thought, but it doesn't include
hardware, straps, or the cat. Chris got back to me about the SS pipes, which
is still tempting. Unfortunately, there will also be extra cost of having
someone else install it. Everything is so rusty and I told have all of the
tools/expertise to remove it. I would just make matters worse. I may take it
by a shop and see what they would charge for the pipes and labor, and then
what they would charge just for labor.
Next, I've gotta check that tps....
On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:42 AM, miguel pacheco <mundopacheco@gmail.com>wrote:
You won't find favorable S&S testimonials. Looks like only me and some
other fortunate soul have anything good to say, though on VWVortex, there
are some who have not suffered as much as others, because they applied good
exhaust paint, prior to installation.
Miguel
