Date: Thu, 21 Jul 2011 17:11:17 -0700
Reply-To: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@Q.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Karl Wolz <wolzphoto@Q.COM>
Subject: Re: Watching Oil Temp (long, as usual)
In-Reply-To: <08cc01cc47de$4206de80$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I recall seeing an air ram that fit in front of the sump to provide extra
air flow over the cooling fins. Probably someone on this list linked to it.
Thoughts on its efficacy?
Karl Wolz
|-----Original Message-----
|From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com]
|On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
|Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 12:42 PM
|To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
|Subject: Re: Watching Oil Temp (long, as usual)
|
|of course fins aid cooling, by adding surface area.
|no brainer there.
|fins or ribs also add strength ..
|the improve the strength to weight ratio.
|look at the top of a vanagon transaxle..
|huge ribs there.
|if they were to make it have the same strength but not by
|using ribs, the material would have to be twice as thick as it is.
|
|so think cost/benefit ratio on the fins and ribs.
|sure ..it takes say ...wildly guessing, don't get all crazy on
|me now ..
|say 4 % more material to make a waterboxer block with fins on
|the bottom rather than smooth.
|
|say that gets 2 % better heat removal and 6 percent increase
|in strength..
|don't get distracted by the numbers..
|speaking in principles here.
|And ..there is the unit cost factor..
|when you are making something in production..
|it is efficient use of the time, cost, and machinery and the
|process itself..
|to *optimize what you get for what you put into it.*
|
|that is why cheap junk from some places is so bad.
|They have pushed and pushed how cheap you can make something.
| I get things like wheel dollies made where the wheels are not
|even round..
|where the axles are not even in the center of the wheel..
|that is how far they pushed how cheap they could make it.
|
|I also think 'lowest price mentality' is a pure waste.
|half that junk will just go to landfill. And soon.
|Not vanagon related ..but surely in this country ....there is
|so much waste.
|You buy something ..
|whatever...a fancy barbeque..
|you let it rust and deteriorate ..in a year or two you buy
|another one at Cheap-Mart and what happens to the old one
|...with luck some of it gets recycled, ...mostly it goes in
|landfill ...carried there by highly polluting noisy diesel trucks.
|sorry ..
|so really ....in mass production it does not cost 10 % more to
|make it 10 % better ..'really' ....all factors considered.
|thus strengthening and cooling-aiding ribs and fins only make
|sense if you are trying to make something decent and durable.
|
| as for keeping the end consumer cost down to the lowest
|possible level no matter what it takes, the
|human/environmental cost of that strategy is astronomically high !
|
|I mean what a waste, I get something at HF and I've wasted the
|time and fuel it takes to go get it, find out it's pure junk,
|and return it. I am miles and miles ahead to not even go there
|or take a chance on SOME of their cheap junk.. Some of is all
|right. But they sell things that don't even work, they are so
|cheaply made.
| that's stupid and tragic.
|
|and ..we need them ( humans ) to have their act half together
|so we can keep driving and enjoying our precious vanagons !
| These are the Glory Days now.
|you watch.
|
|Scott
|turbovans
|
|
|
|----- Original Message -----
|From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA>
|To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
|Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
|Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 11:39 AM
|Subject: Re: Watching Oil Temp (long, as usual)
|
|
|
|Fins mean more material, more material means more cost. The
|fins must have some value or they would be removed. Strength
|can be designed into the castings via ribs etc, just like the
|transmission using less material than fins.
|
|How is it a "free improvement" if it takes more material?
|
|You think the fins are there for a no cost strength reason
|(there are no fins on upper surface of engine case, no
|strength needed there?), I think they are there to aid cooling.
|
|alistair
|
|
|
|
|On 2011-07-21, at 11:23 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
|
|> the extra casting cost is nil I suspect. .
|> like barely, barely more expensive to cast it with ribs or fins than
|> without.
|> and besides,
|> as I said, it adds stiffness and strength.
|> it's an almost free improvement.
|> there is no reason not to have fins on an aluminum sump, generally
|> speaking.
|> ( though diesel vanagon does not )
|>
|> Scott
|>
|> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA>
|> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
|> Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2011 7:35 AM
|> Subject: Re: Watching Oil Temp (long, as usual)
|>
|>
|> I have no idea, but I'd guess adding fins must make some useful
|> difference else it would not be worth the casting costs.
|>
|>
|> alistair
|>
|>
|> On 2011-07-20, at 11:29 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
|>
|>> sorry..
|>> I didn't make it clear that is just a wild guestimate.
|>>
|>> what is your hunch on it ?
|>>
|>>
|>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alistair Bell" <albell@SHAW.CA>
|>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
|>> Sent: Wednesday, July 20, 2011 3:58 PM
|>> Subject: Re: Watching Oil Temp (long, as usual)
|>>
|>>
|>> how the heck did you come up with that value?
|>>
|>> is this based on any measurement?
|>>
|>> what is the increased surface area provided by the fins? if
|you know
|>> that then you can start using numbers, otherwise its all
|hooey Scott.
|>>
|>> alistair
|>>
|>>
|>> On 2011-07-20, at 3:04 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
|>>
|>>> Like if there were no ribs..
|>>> just smooth aluminum ...about a 1 and 1/2 percent difference..
|>>> on other words, not much.
|>
|-----
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