Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2011 21:07:34 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: How do you when your springs need to be replaced?
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Not sure where to start Don.
I could talk about the difference between what I call 'linear driving' ..
that's just driving around a corner, rear wheels following along nicely ..
and what I call dynamic driving ..
where both ends of the vehicle are 'doing something.'
In real performance driving the car 'rotates' ...about a point roughly in
the middle..or a little aft of center..
and the driver keeps the car rotating with inputs of ( rear wheel drive
we're talking here ) of power..
and keeps the car lined up with the corner ..
it's not 'linear' ..it's dynamic.
I mention motorcycles in a discussion on anything like this ..since
motorcycles are 'very ready' to have directional input and control with
engine power acting on the rear wheel.
you'll notice btw..that ALL or the vast majority of rear wheel drive
performance vehicles had very dedicated front and rear tires, whether
motorcycles, dragsters, Indy cars ( they once did ) and Formula 1 cars..
when tires were 'free' ..run whatever seemed..
in the 80's the rear tires of Formula 1 cars where massively larger than the
fronts.
the front and rear tires of any rear wheel drive 2WD vehicle have vastly
different jobs.
I could say 10 times as much.
right now I'll just say ..
I have about 7 running vanagons ...good ones..
and at least 100 mounted and balanced tires ..
so I get to try out a LOT of tire combinations on 2WD vanagons ..
and I've mentioned ..
maybe I haven't ..I have been dabbling in performance rear wheel drive
driving since 1964..
and if ten times 100,000 miles is a million..
then I've probably driven 2 million miles, raced in the first Mexican 100
Off Road Race in Baja California in November 1967. There's a paragraph and
small picture of my car in the Feb 68 issue of Hot VW's and Dune Buggies
...a 56 Chevy, 305 V-8...........the biggest valve heads that are factory
that fit on that engine ..
big carb, cam, and 6 forward gears. I have a picture of me power sliding it
at 60 mph on a dirt Baja pubic highway.
and I'm killer on snow and ice .. believe me ..
I don't say anything I don't truly think is correct..
if I have doubts , I say 'I believe' or whatever..
trust me, I know what I am talking about in rear wheel drive vehicle
handling dynamics,
and they are true Sports Sedans..having the same suspension type as Mercedes
cars of the era.
For those that don't know ..
those are extremely well behaved and excellently handling vehicles..
you can flat through a common 1982 240D Mercedes sedan violently into a 60
mph sweeper full of pot holes..
and the car won't care ..
it just goes where you point it ..
and so stability ..that it doesn't matter what you do with the gas or the
brakes..
totally unflappable.
and vanagons use the same suspension type.
and of course ..vanagon is a bigger box..
and the nuances of slightly better straight line tracking, good 'turn-in'
and cornering stability are masked some..but they are there.
Drive 'em like they are a greyhound bus or truck if you want..
but there is much better handling to be had with vanagons and their truly
sporty suspension than most people realize. I doubt many vanagon owners
even know what it is .....or can heel and toe downshift diving into a
corner.
hell..if you want to read a blurb about dynamic vehicle handling ...
I'll just tell you ....road and Track mag tested an Tesla pure electric
built on a Lotus chassis ...
against the same Lotus, just gas version . I found it very interesting that
they said you couldn't get the EV's front end to bite by chopping the
power abruptly going into a corner, which helps the car get the idea about
changing direction ..
no weight transfer there..that the driver would induce intentionally to help
set the car up for the corner and get going in right..
so the Electric was at a handling disadvantage there .....it doesn't slow
down hard when the go pedal is released abruptly .......
there are LOTS of inputs involved in dynamic driving ...the steering wheel
is just one ..
my point is ..
vanagons have rather decent suspension..
and they can respond, when set up right ..to a tiny bit of dynamic driving
input ..
generally ...any rear wheel drive car corners better under power ..I'm sure
you've noticed.
That's the kind of thing I am talking about ..
and vanagons do respond that way ..it's just harder to tell than it would be
in say ..
more powerful rear wheel drive car . But it's there.
long enough.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Hanson" <dhanson928@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2011 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: How do you when your springs need to be replaced?
> On Thu, Jul 28, 2011 at 3:48 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> my personal 87 Wolfsburg..
>> drives like a perfectly nice riding and handling sport car....
>> very quiet inside too ...sweet van.
>>
>
> Bull****!
> Scott, come on, Mr...You are exaggerating like crazy there. Impossible to
> make a 2 ton vehicle that is over 6 feet tall and shaped like a shoebox
> into
> a "Nice riding and handling sport car" except in your mind, or on your
> computer screen on the internet. And at a power to weight of
> approximately
> (being generous here) 40lbs per hp....It ain't never gonna be a sport
> car...
>
> You might make one handle just fine, maybe even like a big fat passenger
> car, way better than the numbers say they should...but at best, they'll
> never be any kind of high performance road machine....without major
> modifications such as dropping maybe 1500lbs, lowering the center of
> gravity
> a couple of FEET...adding tons of tire contact patch and huge HP
> increase... That would not be a Vanagon any longer, but it would be a
> half-a**ed sports car, maybe.
>
> They are amazing vehicles that do handle much better than you might
> think....but nobody but a dreamer could ever say they 'drive like a
> perfectly nice riding and handling sport car' (and not laugh themselves
> silly after saying that)
