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Date:         Mon, 22 Aug 2011 00:39:45 -0700
Reply-To:     BenT Syncro <syncro@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         BenT Syncro <syncro@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Was Tubes in tires, now gas tanks
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <01d101cc6099$566a1f80$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Closed topic as of 12:21pm yesterday.

Unless you are talking about putting tubes in tires, redirect to Friday.

BenT Mod

On Aug 22, 2011, at 12:01 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:

> well......... > it's not fridae, > and please say that FOR YOU it's all financially-dictated. > > what my food costs is very low on my list of reasons why I chose to eat what > I eat. > I barely even consider cost in that decision. I consider health aspects > mainly. Damn the cost. > There is no substitute for good nutrition. > Anyone would be wise to try to do the best they can in that department. > if they spend a higher portion of their income on good food ...so what ? > > it's being truly 'at choice' that's important. > If one nutritional suppliment you think you should take is say $ 40 in one > brand, and the same about is only $ 17 in another brand.. > are you really at choice, , the best interests of your own health .. > with the less expensive one ? maybe, maybe not. > > sorry ...direct out-of-pocket cost is not very high on my list of > priorities. And .. > if people contribute $ to me ... > just to be generous.. > I in turn give to others ...just 'give' ..a no-strings-attached gift .. > how does that figure in your statement ? > > not in it for the money, but to serve. > Scott > www.turbovans.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Hargrave" <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> > To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 11:45 AM > Subject: Re: Was Tubes in tires, now gas tanks > > > I'm not trying to bash you or be negative towards you but those who believe > their decisions through the day are not financial need to do some looking at > themselves. > > Everything if financial - for example: > > I try to eat healthy so I have 2 pieces of whole wheat bread with (real) > butter in the morning. When I started buying the bread I eat I decided the

> return was worth the additional cost - that's a financial decision. > > I'll make sure I can afford the tickets before I go to the movie with my > youngest Son this evening - that's a financial decision. > > I'm always aware of the amount of coffee I have left when I make my next pot > of coffee - that's a financial decision. > > When I go shopping for this week's groceries, I comparison shop - that's a

> whole series of financial decisions! > > How many decisions have you made today without considering the long or short > term financial cost to you or to someone else? > > Thanks, Tom Hargrave > www.stir-plate.com > www.towercooler.com > www.kegkits.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net] > Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 1:14 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Tom Hargrave > Subject: Re: [VANAGON] Was Tubes in tires, now gas tanks > > Well Tom, different folks have different moralities. for some, financial is > the only reality. too bad. mcneely > > ---- Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote: >> My original response was to the tire tube question and why shops will not

>> mount tubes in tubeless tires today. I brought in the Pinto as another >> example of our legal system "taking care of us". >> >> >> Your argument that Ford's design compromise could allow someone to get >> hurt could be considered unconscionable is flawed. Using your logic, the >> original VW type 1 (beetle) design could be called unconscionable because

>> it provided very little side impact collision protection, as a friend who

>> was killed in one years ago discovered. Her 1967 VW Bug was hit in the >> driver side door & she died 4 hours later from internal damage caused by >> the impact. >> >> Ford did analyze the situation and as Jim pointed out in his post and as >> he stated their decision was financial. But so are your insurance coverage >> and what you decide to buy today. So, it's OK for you to make a financial

>> decision that affects the type of insurance coverage on your vehicle and >> it's not OK for Ford to make a financial decision that affects less than >> 0.1% of their car owners? All business decisions are financial, including

>> decisions made by VW's "Engineering driven" staff. At the end of the day >> all businesses have to make a good profit to continue delivering the >> products we all want and every one of them make finance driven design >> compromises. >> >> And as far as gas tanks go, Ford was the only one who's gas tank served as >> the trunk floor. Everyone else with rear mounted gas tanks suspended the >> tank below the trunk with bolts or straps. Sure, rear mounted gas tanks >> can split on impact but with other's designs, if that gas tank split & >> ruptured & burned the fire started on the outside. Even the original >> mustang used the trunk floor design and the Mustang fastbacks were subject >> to the same combination of events as the Pinto. With the Crown Vic and >> other non-hatch back Fords, the gas tank top was separated from the >> passenger compartment with a bulkhead & back seat. >> >> The real issue is that all of us are driving up & down the highway in >> potential rolling fire bombs & we all seem to be OK with that risk. If I >> threw 12 sicks of dynimite or 1/2 pound of C4 explsive into your Vanagon &

>> said, "hey, carry this for me, I don't have room in my car" you'd jump out >> and nail me for exposing you to such risk. But you think nothing of >> pumping 16 gallons of highly volitile, explosive gasoline into your tank >> and driving off for the weekend. >> >> Thanks, Tom Hargrave >> www.stir-plate.com >> www.towercooler.com >> www.kegkits.com >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of >> Dave Mcneely >> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 9:07 AM >> To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com >> Subject: Re: Tubes in tires. >> >> Tom, I'm not sure what your point is. The Pinto was subject to gas tank >> rupturing in a rear end collision. One did not have to be smoking for the >> burst tank to result in flames. The same was true of the much later model >> Ford Crown Victoria (Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car), but >> accidents involving stopped police cruisers got most of the attention. >> Just because something makes the news multiple times does not mean that it >> is a "pseudo problem." It might be for real. If Ford knew about a >> potentially deadly flaw, and yet continued to market the vehicle bearing >> it, then that was an unconscionable behavior on Ford's part. Corporations >> take immoral positions about as often as individuals do. The consequences >> are just much greater in the case of corporations. >> >> Not just the Pinto, but other vehicles with the gas tank that far back, >> including some other hatch back models had the same problem. That is one

>> reason that body style became modified considerably in most brands. >> mcneely >> >> ---- Tom Hargrave <thargrav@HIWAAY.NET> wrote: >> > Running tubes in tubeless tires causes sidewalls to run hotter. And >> > although >> > it was a less than 0.1% problem, enough accidents have happened because

>> > of >> > the practice to force the tire shops to stop putting tubes in tubeless >> > tires. >> > >> > You only need one horrible accident involving one SUV full of Mom & Kids >> > that's linked to a real or imaginary flaw to cause the National Media to >> > go >> > into a feeding frenzy. The end result will be some corporation will be >> > hurt >> > and then all of us will pay more for whatever that entire industry >> > delivers >> > because everyone in that industry has to pass along their increased >> > insurance cost to us. So, who wins at the end? The defense and the >> > prosecution lawyers win because they all got paid. >> > >> > Remember the Ford Pinto issue? If you were in a Pinto AND you were in >> > the >> > front seat smoking AND you were hit from behind AT THE RIGHT SPEED, the

>> > passenger compartment would get sprayed with gas and you and your family >> > MIGHT turn into crispy critters. Ford knew about the problem but >> > calculated >> > accurately that it was a less than 0.1% problem. But the media picked it >> > up >> > anyway and at the end of their feeding frenzy Ford was screwed. Or more

>> > correctly, Ford's future customers were screwed since the cost of >> > loosing >> > was ultimately passed on to the consumer, just as all corporate lawsuits >> > are. >> > >> > The irony of the Pinto issue was that at the same time the Toyota >> > Corolla >> > was killing drivers by impaling them on the steering column. But the >> > Toyotas >> > weren't bursting into balls of fire and they did not grab media >> > attention! >> > >> > Thanks, Tom Hargrave >> > www.stir-plate.com >> > www.towercooler.com >> > www.kegkits.com >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf

>> > Of >> > craig cowan >> > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:14 PM >> > To: vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com >> > Subject: Tubes in tires. >> > >> > I have a BFG that was damaged at the bead upon removal from the previous >> > set >> > of wheels. It is still a great tire with tons of tread. It just leaks >> > air >> > now. I'm thinking throw a tube in it, and since it will be used as a >> > spare >> > anyway..... it should hold air well then and serve it's purpose right? >> > >> > Are there any flaws in this statement? Are there problems with tubes? >> > Is there a reason why 4 tire shops told me today that they can't legally >> > put >> > a tube in a tubeless tire, but all suggest that I do that? >> > >> > -Craig >> > ----- >> > No virus found in this message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3847 - Release Date: 08/20/11

>> >> -- >> David McNeely >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3848 - Release Date: 08/21/11 > > -- > David McNeely > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1520/3848 - Release Date: 08/21/11


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