Date: Mon, 12 Sep 2011 01:19:22 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Brake Fade-wheel cylinder pull back!
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
The Vanagon rear brakes are really the same set up form the Bay Window
busses. The major differences are the lower shoe rests are fixed instead of
adjustable and they are now self-adjusting with the take up on the same side
as the cylinder. The "original" cylinders had an internal spring the pushed
the pistons out against the shoes to avoid the "suck back" that would occur
creating a gap between the pistons and the shoes making for that "need to
pump" the pedal feeling. Since the cylinders are otherwise the as the early
bus most replacements including some dealer supplied parts are missing that
spring. So far only the ATE cylinders have it.
And yes it makes a difference.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 7:53 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Brake Fade
ah....
re this 'pull back syndrome' ...
a few things...for one, in the vid there's no drum on, so the shoes are
moving a lot further than they normally do.
see that horizontal adjuster rod jump a little early in the video ?
that doesn't happen with the drum on and the that rod adjusted right ( and
it's self-adjusting anyway )
and ...in the vid, are the spots on the backing plate where the shoes rub
lubed with anti-seize compound ?
Do many Vanagon techs know to lube those spots ?
do they lube the ends of the brake shoes where they move and sit ..
or the ends of the adjuster rod ? ...
or where the cable for the parking brake hooks in the lever ?
so far ..without more explanation I don't see what you are getting at.
I'm sure people realize the wheel cylinder is fixed in place..
the front shoe it the leading shoe.....
the rear is the trailing shoe ..
things don't really move or travel that far when things are adjusted right.
I've read various things about vanagon rear brake weirdness..
I just flat never have any problems..
I do find out of round drums..
even brand new cheap ones..
I do find poor workmanship ..
I understand about shimming out the bottom of the shoes to make them wear
more evenly ..
I have not found it necessary to do that.
I put new shoes, cylinders, and drums on the rear of a van ..
I barely think about that for 5 years at least...
I do check, and empty out brake dust sometimes..
I even tweak the adjusters up just a bit more sometimes over what they
natural adjust to by themselves..
I make sure the parking brake cables slide nicely ..
I have found those rusted solid,
or damaged, or very sticky.
take a good drum ..
cut a window in it..........bolt it up ...and ...... with adjustment
pre-done very well...
then watch the wheel cylinder pins push out on the shoes ..
they won't be moving any eighth inch or more.
I've never had a problem with them not retracting or doing anything like
'pull back' ..whatever that is supposed to be.
I never even put on new hardware..though there are many people
............pro's etc..that say you must use all new hardware every brake
job ..
here's what I do ..
I put max, max effort into impeccable workmanship ..
and I use the highest quality parts I can find ..
and it's NOT in the parts..........believe me ..it's in the Workmanship
where you get your good results..
gotta use quality parts yes..
but think of it as 20 % what parts you use, and 80 % workmanship as where
you get your good results from.
I don't need to say I constantly see quite bad work on vanagons
........sometimes it's just silly.
Just do very careful good work.
Develop your own tricks. ..find your own personal route to very good
results every time.
It's in the details.
Most work is 'short cut' work ..just get the parts on ..
Then they think that's a rear brake job. It's not really ..
Believe me .......'installing the parts' is really Incidental to the Real
Whole Process - of getting good results.
Scott
turbovans
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Maglott" <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Sunday, September 11, 2011 3:20 PM
Subject: Re: Brake Fade
> Pistons and pins moving smoothly.
>
> video of wheel cylinder "pullback" syndrome.
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQrTuwBdXxs&feature=related
>
> Edward
>
> At 05:45 PM 9/11/2011, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>>sounds like progress.
>>I always put 'disc brake quiet' on the back of the pads myself.
>>
>>I wouldn't go by appearance so much as how they feel and work..the
>>front discs and pads.
>>
>>did you check for smooth movement of front caliper pistons..
>>and guide pins if it's the later style ?
>>
>>I don't think you over did it especially ..
>>some hot brake smell by itself is not a big deal.
>>
>>wheel cylinder 'pulling back' ?
>>
>>perhaps 'weak' ?
