Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2011 19:40:06 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Clutch Adjustment ?
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the clutch pedal action should feel quite smooth and linear.
If it does not 'feel' that way ..
it may not be working like it should..
the entire system .... 3 individual separate ways can be
'off'...............hydraulically, pedal assembly wise, and clutch itself
wise. And some at the slave bracket, some at the crosshaft in the bell
housing too.
to give you an idea of what I'm talking about ..there was one van towed in
with a blown out 3rd gear and undriveable transmission.
This is how the clutch pedal felt to me ..
it was 'mushy' like the hydruaulics were weak - and they were too.
at the same time ....the effort to make the throw out bearing compress the
pressure plate was much higher than it should be.
it was really two opposite symptoms maksing each other ..
it was both 'soft' at the pedal ..the weak hydrucalics, ........and 'too
stiff' at the pedal from a very old tired clutch.
also the pedal assembly ..there is no provision really to lubricate the
metal-to-metal pivot point at the clutch clevis pin. It's greased at the
factory ,and that is supposed to last 30 years, which it can't.
( you can spray up in there semi-blindly though, and that can help a lot ,
to keept that pin lubed )
on my 87 wolfsburg....it has about 1 1/2 inches freepay at the top of the
pedal travel.
Too much by several miles.
it shoudld be about 1/4 inch.
so first thing ..check that. A half inch freeplay at the top of the clutch
pedal travel is acceptable ..but it shouldn't be that much really.
One 'can' .........drop down the clutch master cylinder.........reach up in
there with a 5 inch deep 15mm socket ( where do you get one of those ???? )
and loosen the locknut ..
and screw out the push rod some ....that will reduce freepay at the clutch
pedal.
It doesn't fix the worn pin and hole at the clevis,
but it will compenstate for wear there. It's not a 'real 'repair' but it
can buy lots of time before having to really deal with it.
on my wolfsburg .........that area is still not really right. It 'works'
.........and I am dreading the extreme hassle it is to get the whole pedal
assembly out.
so John..
first check free play at the top of the clutch pedal. It it's an inch say
...that's not right.
next ..
if the van starts to move with clutch pedal pretty close to the floor ..
that's not really right.
it should be about 2 or 3 inches.
One inch is not right at all.
neither is 'way' up in the air.............like 6 inches say, though that
almost is not possible on a vanagon.
If clutch engaeges too close to the floor ..
it can be too much free play at the pedal mechansim..
it can be weak hydrualics. If your clutch master cylinder looks like it's
been laying on the bottom of the ocean ..in other words rusty looking
.........it's due.
they do not have to be leaking externally to be faulty ..
they can just as easily pump in air when very old, and not be leaking
externally.
of course, any signs of external leakage there...wet boot, brake fluid on
the floor that is from the clutch master cylinder it's deffenitely due.
next......'lost motion'
it's rare, but sometimes people leave the front support bracket off the
slave cylinder braket on the transmisison.
watch that bracket as someone operates the clutch ( engine off ) and make
sure it doesn't flex too much.
They can crack ...though it's pretty rare.
that's all 'exterenal to the clutch inside the bell housing'
if all that is right ..good pedal mechanism, good hydrrualics front and rear
..
and slave bracket is solid ..
that leaves the clutch itself , including crosshaft , inside the bell
housing.
those crosshafts do really well....check out how poorly the forks are welded
to the shaft itself sometime ..it's amazing that those don't crack . New
crosshafts that have been welded better there are available..
and it's rare that is a problem with a stock clutch.
the clutch itself............they are amazinly good on vanagons.
And ............eventually the pressure plate just gets 'tired'
High pedal effort .........can be a sign of a thin disc, and a tired
pressure plate.
When I used to do clutches on Honda Accords..
the action of the pedal after the job was so smooth and easy
...............that I wondered if the clutch was ok..but it was. When the
disc is new, and the pressure plate is new and everything is moving in it
smoothly...
clutch pedal feel will be not extra high ..
and especially ...the effort will be linear. Linear and smooth.
if it's not , something is not working right.
other things..
rare is the clutch on a vanagon I take apart where the workmanship was
adeqae to me. I don't see people making sure the crosshaft pivots very
smooothly ..like they need good lubing when doing a clutch job.
I don't see the TOB Guide Tube lubed that well..
or the faces of the fork where it pushes on the TOB .........and pilot
bearings ..
they commonly are missing the felt seal there ...so clutch dust ruins the
little rollers in there after a while.
I see missing locating dowels in the pressure plates.
I see flywheel bolts installed dry on the threads ........just all kinds of
'shortcut' work on vanagon clutches.
I use btw ...Sachs clutches on stock vanagons. Never a problem . They say
'rebuilt in mexico' on the pressure plate....but they sure work perfectly.
No problems ever.
as you can see from all of the above ..........it's in the details.
and without a lot of experience it can be hard to tell exactly what is going
on ..
since the various parts can all affect each other ..
there is a tendency to think 'it's just one thing' ............when it can
be 2 1/2 things are interacting in a way that results in it not being really
right.
there is also bolting a wooden block, with a high traction surface on top of
it, to your clutch pedal.
But make sure the clutch , the entire system is working right first.
The cluch pedal defenitely should not start making the van move only an inch
or so off the floor.
and check free play at the top of the pedal travel first thing. there has
to be some, but it should be as little as possible really. 1/8 inch is
fine. Probably started out that way from the factory. Or 1/4 inch ...but
not much more than that. You can get by with 1/2 inch ..but that reflects
some wear in the pedal area.
scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2011 6:24 PM
Subject: Re: Clutch Adjustment ?
> Scott,
>
> My red 1988 GL with manual tranny has these two issues. With my short
> legs it hard to get the pedal down far enough to get the clutch fully
> disengaged to avoid grinding the gears. It really does have to go
> virtually to the floor to clear gears.
>
> Any tips?
>
> Thanks.
>
> John
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
> On 9/14/2011 4:23 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> if any of these match please comment..
>>
>> engages too close to the floor ( van moves with clutch pedal barely
>> off the
>> floor )
>> Can't get it in gear ( clutch fails to release completely and gears grind
>> when you try to select 1st etc )
