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Date:         Sun, 25 Sep 2011 20:20:00 -0700
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: Question and parts request.
Comments: To: John Rodgers <inua@CHARTER.NET>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=response

Hi John.. I find critical fasteners like thee one that holds a propeller on fascinating. I have worked on avionics on aircraft.. and we always torque the 4 radome screws to so many inch lbs., for example.

on WV diesel 1.9 engines..there's a stretch bolt holding the timing belt sprocket onto the flat noise of the crankshaft ( very dumb design I think..........no, I know.......because I've seen it screw up .. and other engines such as Mercedes, Volvo, and Subaru don't do it that way ..which is an example of why I don't think engineers are so smart all the time ..) .. anyway I call that bolt........... ..a one time use only stretch bolt, the Jesus Bolt .. cause if it screws up .. it's all over. lol

Scott ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 5:51 PM Subject: Re: Question and parts request.

> Scott, > > I have done my share of wrenching in the aviation industry. We lived by > the specs. Some were from the engineers - those we lived and died by. > Some were the standard torques applied to hardware not involved in > safety issues. And there were times when I definitely use the"Calibrated > Wrist" - each had it's place. When I have new tires mounted - the shops > always use pneumatic wrenches to set the nuts or bolts - and as soon as > I get home, I always re-torque them by hand with my own torque wrench. > Invariably the shop torques are wrong if Bentley is right. Either to > loose or to tight. But one should not go nuts over this. I think specs > should be observed. You don't want your propeller flying off in > mid-flight, nor your tire and wheel passing you as you go down the road. > If you change a tire on the road, and use reasonable technique - you can > get safely home where you can apply proper torque. In any case, I think > you are absolutely correct about applying even torque all the way > around, and doing it in a tightening pattern so stresses are kept at a > minimum. You can actually flex parts out of shape if that rule is not > observed. The even torque can prevent vibrations from occurring as well, > preventing parts failure of having something fly off as you go down the > road. > > Just my $0.02. > > John > > John Rodgers > Clayartist and Moldmaker > 88'GL VW Bus Driver > Chelsea, AL > Http://www.moldhaus.com > > > On 9/25/2011 6:19 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote: >> Hi john, >> nice to see your note. >> what version of Bentley are you using ? >> mine is the 1980 to 91 version. >> >> and isn't this funny .. >> on my Bentley it says 123 ft lbs for wheel nut torque on pg 46.6 >> and 133 ft lbs on page 42.4 >> so ...........see, even Bentley doesn't know what they are saying >> sometimes. >> >> as for your 1333 ft lbs.. >> better not try that. >> >> well...... >> after I wrote that I tighten my by hand , with a half inch breaker bar >> and >> 3/4 socket until they are good and tight .. >> next thing I see is someone questioning that ........perhaps a little >> light >> I don't know what I am doing... >> and as I said, I have tightened tens of thousands of wheels onto cars >> ,working on cars 'just forever' , starting in 1964 ...........and most >> of my >> life full time. >> >> but I hesitate to share real solid 'back yard' methods .. >> because .............people can be so stupid they'll take that and >> make it >> into like I don't know what I'm doing.. >> so I am cautious about sharing what really works for me sometimes. >> And believe me ..If I am not really sure about something I'll put on a >> qualifier like 'I believe'. I' careful about what I write ..and sometimes >> I'm cautious about what I write ...like sometimes people take one tiny >> thing and go nutty with it. >> >> here's what I suggest ..you get a ......and I did suggest half inch >> drive >> click type torque wrench that does up to 150 lbs .. >> and tighten the lug nuts in the rear to 133 ft lbs.. >> Then see how easily the unscrew with your stock lug wrench under the back >> seat. >> and I will too. >> I expect that's going to be really, really tight. >> And we'll see. >> I can tell you this......in tightening head bolts with an say >> ..........17 >> inch long torque wrench ..that is really, really tight feeling ...so , >> and >> I'll try it myself...133 ft lbs seems really awfully tight to me. >> But I'll check. >> OK.........I just did. >> As I expected 133 ft lbs is awfully tight. >> I tighten them to about 85 to 90 ft lbs. >> That they are evenly tightened is very important.......all very close >> to the >> same, >> and in a star pattern of course. >> >> But if you don't trust yourself, then do what's in the book. >> >> Here is what I suggest.. >> tighten them very firmly, and evenly, by hand with a 1/2 inch breaker >> bar >> to roughly 90 ft lbs. >> Check them again in a few days after driving some. >> Check them twice a year. >> They won't go anywhere if you tightened them evenly and pretty firmly. >> Wheels are not coming off from being tightened to say only 70 ft lbs >> instead >> of 133 .. >> >> and of course...develop your own 'feel' for stuff.. >> and check your work. >> heck........don't even trust tires stores.. >> here's a typical story .. >> Road & Track magazine was doing a several day test drive on a hot turbo >> volvo sedan about 5 years ago. >> A pretty new car. They had just had it serviced. >> they got a flat tire. >> All the kings men and all the kings horses.. >> the people driving the car, the tow truck driver, a CHP .nobody but >> nobody >> could get the flat tire's lug nuts off. >> It cost them about $ 500 in towing and repairs. >> Likely because some dealer tire jocky impacted the nuts on with an impact >> gun to 400 ft lbs.... >> just do careful work >> and develop your own feel for things.. >> and always, always check your work .. >> twice even . >> and if anyone touches your van ......for anything...check their work. >> I've loaned a van to someone and they went to get gas, the pump jockey >> stuck >> the ignition key in the gas cap and bent it .. >> don't trust anyone......and check your own work several times even. >> and develop your own feel for what works. Just make 'em very tight .. >> and use a toque wrench if you feel you need too.. >> and if you want to take to 133 ft lbs.. >> go right ahead. But make sure you can get it undone with the van's stock >> lug wrench, if that's what you plan to use if you get a flat tire. >> 'engineers' .. >> the 'real world' is very far away from 'engineer's world' quite often. >> >> just do good careful work. >> Scott >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Rodgers" <inua@charter.net> >> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> >> Cc: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> >> Sent: Sunday, September 25, 2011 3:22 PM >> Subject: Re: Question and parts request. >> >> >>> Scott, >>> >>> My Bentley says about wheel torque values: >>> >>> 1980 up to Nov 1984 - 170 Nm/125 ft-lbs >>> From Nov 1984 - 180 Nm/1333 ft-lbs >>> >>> If one doesn't use book values - what would one use. I know for many >>> "bolts" there are "standard" torques, but I wouldn't think that would >>> apply to lug bolts/nuts. Those values are what they are as determined by >>> the engineers. I only hope they got it right. By Guess and By Golly is a >>> bit scarey! >>> >>> John >>> >>> John Rodgers >>> Clayartist and Moldmaker >>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver >>> Chelsea, AL >>> Http://www.moldhaus.com >>> >>> >>> On 9/25/2011 4:28 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote: >>>> ( does anyone really take the wheel lug nuts to 123 ft lbs ? ..that is >>>> really, really tight. ) >>> >> >>


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