Date: Sat, 1 Oct 2011 00:56:06 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Van won't run right - troubleshooting help, more
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=response
I do things like hang a timing light on it where I can see it ..
that could give a clue if it's ignition dropping out when it quits.
for example, of tricks to use to catch what it is, when it does it.
OK........when it quits, is it 'soft' ..or is abrupt ?
what does the tach do ..does it drop to zero when it's quitting ..or does it
match rpm exactly.
and especially, is it a soft shut off, and an abrupt one ?
hot wire the fuel pump and see if that makes any difference.
there are dozens of tricks you can try ..
that remove the 02 sensor trick to test for clogged cat, for example.
but do say ..'soft' ...or 'abrupt/sharp' when it shuts off.
plug in another ignition switch ..
doesn't seem likely ..but easy to do.
there are many test that may not seem that pertinent..
and often they are free to try, and take only minutes ..which makes them
very worth trying.
Might learn or discover something during that process.
I always operate the engine from 'back there' ........with a remote starter
switch.
it helps a lot to be right there by the engine .
I couldn't imagine working on some weird engine problem without starting it
with a remote starter switch, so I'm right there by it.
you might see a spark jump ..
or a loose part move..
or dozens of things like that.
and so on !
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 11:22 PM
Subject: Re: Van won't run right - troubleshooting help, more
> This discussion has all been very good for me. Mine is one that won't
> continue to run after the initial firing on start up. It gets two or
> three fuel fired turnovers then quits. All this discussion has given me
> insights in troubleshooting my own difficulty.
>
> John
>
>
> John Rodgers
> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> Chelsea, AL
> Http://www.moldhaus.com
>
>
> On 9/30/2011 11:57 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>> sure ..
>> but I still like to see dry plugs..
>> they can also fail to fire across the electrodes..
>> and 'leak' off to the side in tiny sparks.
>>
>> I like to see the plug on the end of it's plug wire, and grounded with a
>> jumper wire ..actually see it fire across the electrodes..
>> when it's getting hard to find out what it won't run.
>> be extra careful doing that..
>> as you don't want stray fuel and sparks getting anywhere near each other.
>>
>> have you got it down to it's one of these...........
>> lack of spark at the spark plugs.
>> lack of injector control from the ecu,
>> clogged/restricted cat or muffler
>> lack of fuel pressure or fuel pump control,
>> and consider he fuel itself. ( that's often overlooked )
>>
>> I'd look into making sure things are in time, since it's getting so
>> difficult to diagnose.
>>
>> it is after all, just a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons.
>>
>> puffs of smoke out the tail pipe..
>> makes me think of collapsed substrate inside the cat.
>> remove the O2 sensor and see if she'll fire off.
>> that's a quick cheater test for clogged cat.
>>
>> crank it with a NOID light on the an injector connector ..
>> making sure you get steady flashes there.
>> Check for power to each injector from the main relay, key on, engine not
>> running.
>> check for everything ...lol !
>>
>> Scott
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Hardy" <david@PLANETMIND.NET>
>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:29 PM
>> Subject: Re: Van won't run right - troubleshooting help, more
>>
>>
>> Seems like letting it sit overnight would natually un-flood it, no?
>>
>> I tested both the resistance of the Temp II sensor and it's wiring: all
>> good.
>>
>> I tested the fuel pressure: 30 psi while cranking, so that's not the
>> issue.
>>
>> I guess I'll just start troubleshooting from square one tomorrow....
>>
>> David
>>
>> Quoting "Scott Daniel - Turbovans" <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>:
>>
>>> in addition, to start a flooded engine that has an air flow meter..
>>> even with full throttle held open ..
>>> the mostly closed AFM flapper won't let enough air in .
>>> Sometimes pulling one of those air breather hoses out of the air intake
>>> book
>>> will let enough air into to get a start from very flooded. ( or remove
>>> AFM )
>>> Just crank steadily with throttle wide open ( and also having some way
>>> for air get in past the AFM ) ..
>>> and be ready to let off the gas if when she finally roars to life.
>>>
>>> thinking about Temp Sensor II and wiring for it is a natural thing to
>>> consider in a case like this.
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 7:20 PM
>>> Subject: Re: Van won't run right - troubleshooting help, more
>>>
>>>
>>>> Too much fuel could be flooding it. Un plug all the injectors and then
>>>> crank
>>>> the engine with the throttle open. If it suddenly starts to spit and
>>>> may
>>>> start you know it was flooded out. Common cause for this is a bad
>>>> connection
>>>> or ground connection for the temp 2 sensor.
>>>>
>>>> Dennis
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>>> Of
>>>> David Hardy
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 1:19 PM
>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>> Subject: Re: Van won't run right - troubleshooting help, more
>>>>
>>>> OK, so now it won't start at all, not even fire. All I get is these
>>>> strange,
>>>> random puffs out the exhaust, like one every 1-2 secs of cranking.
>>>>
>>>> I've swapped in my spare fuel pump; no change. Put in new fuel
>>>> filter, no
>>>> change. I pulled the injectors on one side and cranked - they ARE
>>>> spraying.
>>>> There is pressure in fuel lines. Pulled 2 plugs and cranked:
>>>> good sparks. gaps are fine.
>>>>
>>>> I went thru all the tests on the ECU plug on the Bentley. Everything
>>>> checked
>>>> out. As I said, I swapped in a space ECU; no effect. (also swapped out
>>>> AFM,
>>>> distributor and coil).
>>>>
>>>> I pulled a valve cover and the valves are moving. The plug wires are in
>>>> the
>>>> right order and place. Never touched the timing. I checked compression
>>>> in
>>>> #4, and it's normal.
>>>>
>>>> So it's getting spark, fuel, air and as compression. I can't believe it
>>>> won't even fire. I thought I knew this engine pretty well, but I'm
>>>> out of
>>>> ideas.
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> Quoting "Ken Wilford" <kenwilfy@comcast.net>:
>>>>
>>>>> David, the first thing you need to look at is what is happening when
>>>>> it won't start. If it has spark but won't fire then you want to check
>>>>> to see if your injectors are spraying. If they are working then put
>>>>> your hand in front of the tail pipe to be sure that the exhaust is
>>>>> getting out (no clogged cat) when you crank the van over. If all of
>>>>> these things are working and it still won't start then it is possible
>>>>> that there is a sender in the FI system that is causing the van to
>>>>> flood out. Most of the time if this is the case with your van, it is
>>>>> the Temp II sensor on the thermostat housing. You can test for this
>>>>> by unplugging it and then using a paper clip to jumper the two prongs
>>>>> in the plug to each other. Now try to start the van. If it starts
>>>>> right up then you know that it is the temp II sensor that has gone
>>>>> bad. If it still won't start, try unplugging the oxygen sensor. The
>>>>> van will run fine without it plugged in and sometimes they can fail
>>>>> and cause the van to run super rich (flooded).
>>>>>
>>>>> If none of these work, I would check your spark plugs for fouling and
>>>>> proper gap and also your cap and rotor. If you go one thing at a
>>>>> time, step by step, you will find the problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> If you need any other help please let me know.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>> Ken Wilford
>>>>> John 3:16
>>>>> www.vanagain.com
>>>>> Phone: 856-327-4936
>>>>> Fax: 856-327-2242
>>>>>
>>>>> On 9/29/2011 3:56 PM, david hardy wrote:
>>>>>> So I have this issue with my '86 Westy that's got me
>>>>>> stumped...yesterday it started missing a
>>>>>> tad, then just it quit on me in the middle of traffic (luckily a
>>>>>> block from my house) after
>>>>>> running great all day. It would turn over but just not fire. After
>>>>>> tons of cranking I got it
>>>>>> started again, but it was running really rough, no power, very
>>>>>> unbalanced, coughs and sputters
>>>>>> when trying to rev it. It seemed to go between running perfectly
>>>>>> then terribly every few
>>>>>> seconds. I got it home and it's getting spark, fuel pump is working
>>>>>> (pump runs and there's
>>>>>> pressure in lines). Have also have a 1990 Westy, so I swapped out
>>>>>> the AFM (no change), coil (no
>>>>>> change), ECU (no change) and the distributor (no change). Funny
>>>>>> thing is, this morning, it
>>>>>> started perfectly, but then immediately started running really
>>>>>> rough like before. And now it
>>>>>> won't start (no ignition at all) again.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I've had this issue a few times before, but it's always cleared
>>>>>> itself up within a minute or
>>>>>> two. Now I guess whatever was failing has done so for good. Anyone
>>>>>> have any ideas?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>> David Hardy
>>>> Planetmind Internetworks
>>>> Nedernet, Inc.
>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>> David Hardy
>> Planetmind Internetworks
>> Nedernet, Inc.
>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>
>>
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