Date: Fri, 14 Oct 2011 19:29:26 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Head gasket, cracked head, or more?
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Hi Ed..
sounds .............uh...........'interesting.'
Overall, I'd say chances are good that at the minimum a head or two needs to
come off the incident engine.
a few thoughts...
the temp gauge will not show rising coolant temps if ..
A.......there is a very sudden large coolant loss and their is no liquid for
the sensor to sense.
or B ....excessive exhaust in the coolant.
It's not that uncommon to see exhaust getting in the coolant actually.
If you ever see ...........very hot engine, stone cold radiator ..
and it's not thermostat, or water pump .......it's likely exhaust in the
coolant.
the exhaust just displaces the coolant in the engine.
the w. pump can't pump a gas. - therefore, beady overheating engine, no
coolant circulation.
Just worked on a subaru with this condition....
zero heat out of either heater ............and it explodes coolant pressure
bottles ..
there were more diagnostic results than that ...but it obviously has a
serious head/or head gasket problem.
OIL PRESSURE ISSUE ..
one thing you want to be *EXTREMELY* careful about..
IF coolant gets in to the oil...
any significant amount, say a few cupfulls...
two seriously major bad things happen..
the coolant is denser, so it goes to the bottom of the oil, where the oil
pump pick up is.
Two ......anti-frz is a horrible bearing lubricant.....
like 'not at all' .......
I have not ever seen it on a waterboxer, but if you pump a-frz to the rod
bearings .....that's ultra bad news.
One clue would be a higher than normal oil level on the dipstick.
the gauge temp sensor being right by the w. pump and t-stat should show
coolant temp for sure ..
as long as there is liquid coolant there.
YOUR OTHER ENGINE .....
what I probably would do it remove the heads from that engine ...
have a valve job done on them, or even hand lap the exhaust valves if money
is short..
and put it back together carefully with freshened up heads and new head
gaskets.
the limiting factor on waterboxer engine life is mainly about the crankshaft
and bearings.
If the bottom end is ok there...
you can rebuilt the top end very nicely.
there are few ways to determine how good the bottom end is ..
One nice way is drive it with an oil pressure gauge on it. One 1.9 I have
....does 50 psi cold on 20W50 oil..
but can get as low as 6 psi at a hot idle. That tells me the oil clearances
are pretty big in that engine ..
I wouldn't take off for Alaska with it, let's say.
also crankshaft end play ....if that is good, or can be brought to spec
.........that also is a good sign for the bottom end.
Hey..two vanagons and 3 engines ..
you should be able to come up with something fairly viable with those to
work with.
nice to see your post.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Duntz" <eduntz@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Friday, October 14, 2011 10:39 AM
Subject: Head gasket, cracked head, or more?
This is so depressing I almost couldn't bring myself to post it. I'm also
posting in all three forums I routinely use to get the widest possible range
of ideas. Apologies if you read it somewhere else.
I posted earlier in the week about finally getting my water pump in the 1.9.
As the pump was on its way out, making noise, I made the mistake of
continuing to drive it too long, and it may have seized up in its last few
miles. As I later learned, the temperature gauge is not a good indicator of
engine overheating if the water pump is seizing, as the coolant is not
circulating, and the gauge is measuring the temp of the coolant at the
t-stat housing, which could be considerably cooler than the hottest part of
the engine.
Anyway, regardless of my suspicions, the only way to see if there was any
damage was to replace the water pump, get it running, and see how it went.
As I posted in my other thread, a terrific guy I'd never met before spent an
entire day helping get the water pump installed, with more than a few
troubles. Now I see how it's running and it's not good.
I had installed a few bottles of the Subaru cooling system conditioner as a
preventative measure "just in case" there was a slight head gasket issue or
other slight leak. When I added coolant and started it up, I got a lot of
foaming in the tank. I thought maybe it was the conditioner, but as I added
more coolant, it didn't change, and I'm sure I didn't put too much in. I got
it up to operation temp. I had lots of bubbles in the coolant tank, and when
I opened the rad bleeder screw, it wasn't just air bubbles, it was like
foam.
I was also getting smoke out of the tailpipe- seemed like water and coolant,
not oil burning. I also got quite a lot of droplets of water shooting right
out of the tailpipe as it was running.
When I first started it up, I could hear a little bit of hissing- I can't
quite tell if it's from one of the flanges where the coolant crossover
attaches, or the head gasket.
Another symptom is that the oil pressure warning light took about 15 seconds
to go out. I was hesitant to let the engine run, but I thought maybe I'd
spilled coolant on the sender and it was grounding it. But I don't think so-
it's pretty much out of the way, right? Each time I start it up, it takes
ten to 15 seconds for the OP light to go out- had been normal before all
this.
One last thing to mention is that before replacing the pump, I had been
getting coolant backing up into the unpressurized tank, I was hoping it was
the pressure cap, but it doesn't seem so now. '
Because I seem to be getting exhaust pressure in the coolant, and coolant in
the exhaust pipe, I'm thinking at the least the internal head gasket
o-rings, and worse a crack in the head. I'm also worried about the OP light.
I've got a few options- none of which I feel 100% confident doing myself,
but would with a good helper. I realize some more testing is necessary to
confirm the diagnosis, but if it is just the head gaskets, replacing them is
one option. I also have another pretty complete 1.9 engine taken out of my
previous Vanagon two years ago. It was getting up there in miles, probably
around 180,000, but it might be easier for me to exchange engines rather
than work on the one in there. The spare engine isn't perfect, but if the
van hadn't been wrecked, I would have kept it going as is for several more
years. I can't afford much right now in the way of putting money into it.
Thoughts on this issue?
I'm going to go camping this weekend and try not to get too depressed over
this. I'm using my "back-up" Vanagon, a 7-passenger from which I've removed
the middle row seat and made a make-shift bed in. Since it doesn't have a
z-bed, I fold the seat down, put a Westfalia and Wolfsburg mattress stacked
in the back, then a mattress topper to bridge a gap, then a futon mattress
on top of the whole thing, with two chests of poastic drawers under the last
foot and a half to support the mattress. Hokey, time-consuming, but cheap
and comfortable.
Thanks for any advice,
Ed
