Date: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:06:13 -0700
Reply-To: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Leaky injection pump drive seal finally replaced
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Finally got everything together this weekend after the injection pump seal exchange. Cranked a while with stop solenoid off and glow relay out to flush through anything nasty that could have accumulated when the fuel system was open. Then hooked start solenoid up. No Poppie starts on the first compression stroke as she used to do.
For those who haven't kept track over the 4 month RR saga:
Run up was that I found the seal leaking air in (but luckily not Diesel out) just before a 2 week family trip in June.
At that time I called around to have a shop help me with the problem. What I got back was a $1500 quote to replace a $19.95 seal. Reason it was so high is that the worked spans both the domain of the usual mechanics and the fuel injection specialists, so the mechanic would have removed the pump, sent it to the fuel injection shop. They would rebuild, test and align it for install. Then mech would reinstall. I tried but couldn't convince anyone to to it in another way.
So end result was that we took the 2week trip with the fuel leak. I had an in-line fuel pump I could put after the tank, should the leak become worse (then I might have a driveability problem (b.t.d.t. with a B2 Passat/Quantum TD). But with the pump in the circuit I would have Diesel dripping out on the timing belt; a risky situation. Didn't have to use the in-line pump. For good measure to deal with the extended cranking (so I thought) I replaced the 30 year old starter with a rebuilt. The "rebuilt" on inspection turned out to be an aftermarket part, and though it said "made in Canada" I expect it used Asian sourced components of not so good quality. Starter was quitting about 2/3rds in to the trip, even though we minimized stops. Had to do the park near a down slope routine as often as possible and we just barely got home.
Not having a shop willing to do the seal for a reasonable price I bought the $19.95 seal and started going about it myself in the van w/o removing the pump. Now it is about a decade since I last worked on VW injections, and never did the input shaft seal before. With work family and inlaws taking priority work proceeded slowly, and with numerous setbacks. Trickiest part was to get seal. Finally got that solved by screwing on a washer to the seal rim and prying on the washer (see below).
So the happy ending to the story is that by nightfall Sunday I had it all together, and got to take a test drive around the block. Thanks to listmembers for tips and support during this "adventure in the driveway".
Martin (and '82 Westy 1.9TD "Poppie")
----- Original Message -----
From: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@yahoo.ca>
To: "vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM" <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>; "Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com" <Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com>
Cc:
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2011 8:51:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Diesel-Vanagon] Re: No luck getting injection pump drive shaft seal out
Update:
Removing the injection pump input shaft seal with the washer method worked well.
Basically got a big 5/16" washer, 8 small screws (#4 1/2" long). Drilled the washer with 8 holes, and screwed the washer to the seal with the 8 screws, then could easily pry on the washer with 2 screwdrivers and the seal popped out.
Put in new seal, put back pulley and just got timing belt on before dark. Another note: Like Mark suggested in an email, my slightly off (3 degrees) valve timing was likely due to timing belt stretch. Indeed, when I tensioned the new timing belt everything lined up perfectly (valves, injection pump, TDC mark.)
Will double check tomorrow that I got it all right by hand cranking a few turns, the see if she starts...
Martin (and '82 Westy 1.9TD "Poppie")
----- Original Message -----
From: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:56:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Diesel-Vanagon] Re: No luck getting injection pump drive shaft seal out
Thanks Justin for pointing out a helpful tool. I did a google image search and found similar looking ones, such as this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110424418872
I'm still pursuing the "put some screws into the seal rim" path. Others use that strategy too:
http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID48231.jpg
http://www.bikernet.com/news/images/PhotoID48232.jpg
If I fail I will have to look for the right size of your tool, try to make one (maybe threading an appropriately sized pipe) or I guess last option is to take the pump out and bring it to a Bosch injection service place and ask them to pull the seal. I would imagine they have the same tool as you showed in the images, but without personal contacts it is hard to borrow tools. (Justifiably -- when I was an apprentice in a machine shop the master would keep all his tools to himself, and we used a second set of "pre-abused" tools and machines)
Martin (and '82 Westy 1.9TD "Poppie")
----- Original Message -----
From: Justin <justin@grease-works.com>
To: Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com
Cc:
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 8:36:07 AM
Subject: [Diesel-Vanagon] Re: No luck getting injection pump drive shaft seal out
We use this tool and it takes all of 5-mins, and can even be done without removing the IP on some rigs:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sArUos2PqIk/ToMun_nciKI/AAAAAAAAA6s/KVGfYhclkKk/s1600/P1010593.JPG
The one on the L is for the 1.6 IP w/17mm shaft, and the one on the R is for the 1.9 NA/TD/TDI IPs w/19mm shaft.
I don't recall where we got these but they make this job a simple task rather than an onerous chore. You screw in the steeply tapered thread into the seal, get it nice and tight and then tighten down the bolt which creates counter pressure on the end of the shaft to press out the seal.
Justin
Justin Soares
Grease Works, LLC
PO Box 432
Corvallis, OR 97339
--- In Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com, Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@...> wrote:
>
> Got another couple of hours work on the Diesel injection pump issue today, but made no real progress. Yesterday before it got dark I had gotten the timing belt and pulley off so I had access to the injection pump drive shaft seal.
>
> Today I tried getting the drive shaft seal out in various ways:
>
> 1. drilled small holes with a dremel in the (metal) lip of the seal. Screwed in screws and tugged at the screws. Unfportunately the screws would strip the threads and seal would not move.
>
> 2. Along the lines of this guy I tried to pry it out. Also no luck.
> http://crustycrank.com/resealinjpump.htm
> (I used one of those trim removal tools which gave me a nice grip behind the seal lip, but I could not make it move. Tried pulling straingt out with both hands (real knuckle buster working witht he pump in the van). Also tried leveraging the pry tool off the pump flange. Still no luck.
>
> 3. Made a hook from a bike spoke with the flange cut off. I could get the J-part in betwen the seal and shaft, then tuen it 90degrees and have the J catch the seal lip. However either the seal lip would pierce or the bike spoke bend would straighten, but the seal would not move.
>
> So much trouble for what I thought shoudl have been a relatively easy seal-pop-out...
>
> Anyone has suggestions for what to do?
>
> I could use a drift and try to collapse the seal outer ring, but I'm adraid a slip would make me strike the drive shaft just on the surface where the seal rides.
>
> Thanks for any tips or ideas.
>
> Martin (and '82 Westy 1.9TD "Poppie")
>
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