Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 23:24:25 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Transmission Woes
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I like that one ..pilot brg.
I worked on a vanagon with a bad pilot brg ...
it matched these symptoms..
sometimes OK, other times not.
On a good portion of the vanagon waterboxer clutches I take apart, I find
the felt dust seal for the pilot bearing missing . Clutch dust helps the
little needle rollers turn to dust in a few years.
there is a metal ring pressed into the center hole of the flywheel. It's
there to retain the felt seal.
Shops or people send the flywheel to a machine shop ..
the machine shop removes that ring to machine the flywheel, then forget
about it.
The tech putting it back together doesn't notice that, or know about it.
So .....no dust seal.
Thus .......short pilot bearing life.
there is a way to fit a diesel vanagon pilot bearing, which as a built in
rubber lip type seal.
Some material needs to be removed, by a machinist, on the crankshaft side of
the flywheel, just a few thousands since the diesel pilot brg sticks out of
the crankshaft hole just a tiny bit.
and yes..
good call on deal with it soon if it is a pilot bearing gone south ( and not
hydraulics or some other thing going on ) ....since the trans input shaft
itself is a bearing surface..
a cheapness VW has used since the very first VW bugs in the late 40's .
On better cars like volvo or subaru, and most japanese cars..
the nose of the input shaft is not a bearing surface, and instead just
sticks into the middle of a whole self-contained sealed pilot brg.
so you do want to preserve the nose of your input shaft for sure, and deal
with it soon, if it is the pilot brg.
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "pickle vanagon" <greenvanagon@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, November 05, 2011 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: Transmission Woes
>I think this should be a failed/failing pilot bearing.
>
> This would effectively prevent the clutch from ever being truly
> disengaged,
> regardless of how well the clutch itself is working mechanically.
>
> It means that with the engine off *and* the wheels stopped, you should be
> able to shift fine, but with either moving at a speed very different from
> the other, shifting requires very good rev-matching.
>
> Being able to start with the clutch depressed is consistent with this,
> since the failing pilot bearing can provide much less resistance than an
> engaged clutch. It's enough resistance that the synchromeshes can't cope
> with, but not so much that it prevents the engine from starting.
>
> If this is what it is you want to avoid driving more with it failed
> because
> you'll eventually mess up the shaft where it rides on the pilot bearing.
> (Only time spent with the clutch pedal down counts against you.)
>
> Might as well replace the clutch while you have the transmission out (if
> you look around, there's some oil seal people like to replace at the same
> time too), but my money is on the little pilot bearing.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 9:21 PM, craig cowan <phishman068@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have longstanding history of random transmission issues. Here's what's
>> up
>> this time.
>>
>> While driving today, I came to a stop light and put it in neutral. When I
>> went to get going again it simply would not go into first (or second
>> gear).
>> Several tries and some rev matching of the engine finally got it and it
>> ran
>> fine for maybe 40 shifts. Then it did it again, won't go into any gear.
>> That seems to me like it's a clutch related problem.
>> So, I went and bled the clutch. It seems to have bled fine. There wan't
>> really any air in there but the fluid coming out was shockingly dark.
>>
>> There is fluid in the transmission, i tired to add some and sure enough,
>> it's full up (with good clean fluid, only a year or so old).
>>
>> It seems to come and go pretty randomly.
>>
>> I have tried pumping the clutch when it does it and can't really tell if
>> this makes a difference or not. I have noticed though that When it does
>> it,
>> if I shut the engine off I can put it into a gear then fire the engine
>> right back up just fine in gear (clutch in) and then it will work and
>> shift
>> as needed. This seems to conflict in my mind with the idea that the
>> clutch
>> is bad, or else it would have lurched when cranking in gear right?
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>> This is an '85 vanagon GL that I turned into a Westfalia years ago, then
>> recently turned back into a 7 passanger. It has a BOSTIG zetec engine and
>> recently had a break line fail to rust (making me think a clutch line
>> could
>> have started leaking...).
>>
>> -Craig
>> '85GL WESTY-7passanger
>> ZETEC in the back
>> '87 SUNROOF Syncro Westfalia
>> '90 GL
>>
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