Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 08:48:49 -0500
Reply-To: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Ken Wilford <kenwilfy@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: Start/Run/Then No Start
In-Reply-To: <6AE66A17-55F3-405D-A4F9-5F7AAE8863BE@yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Skip,
Yes most likely it is a problem with the Temp II sensor or the wiring
from the sensor to the ECU. I would test the sensor with an ohm meter
per the Bentley. If the sensor tests bad then replace it. If the
sensor tests OK then I would test the sensor at the ECU plug. What can
happen is that the wiring from the ECU to the temp II sensor can degrade
to the point where it has high resistance. This can cause the computer
to think that your van is cold no matter what the sensor is actually
saying. Then the van will start great when cold but will "flood" when
hot and not start. Let me know if you need anything. I have the Temp
II sensors in stock. One other thing to check is the ground for the
temp II. This is the brown wire at the temp II sensor plug. You will
need to pull back the black rubber boot at the plug to see which is
which. If this ground is bad it can also cause a high resistance and do
the same thing.
Glad you finally got it running again! You are making progress and
learning a bunch. You should be proud of yourself!
Ken Wilford
John 3:16
www.vanagain.com
On 11/8/2011 7:27 AM, Skip wrote:
> 84 Westy 1.9L
>
> She started this morning! So at this juncture, I'm not planning to crawl under and hook up the remote starter, test the NOID, etc.
>
> Correct me if I'm wrong (I haven't revisited prior posts) but if the engine doesn't restart when it's warm/hot, could that indicate a bad Temp II sensor? Or does it indicate a different "bad something" perhaps?
>
> Again, symptoms:
> 1. Replaced ECU, engine fired right up.
> 2. Drove 5 miles, shut her off, engine would not restart (last night).
> 3. This morning (engine cold), she fired right up (immediately on the first turn). I shut down and restarted several times just fine.
>
> Any thoughts? Thank you.
>
> Skip
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 7, 2011, at 11:36 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>
>> start with checking for spark out of the coil.
>> then if that's good ..NOID light on the injector connectors.
>>
>> got enough gas ?
>> I'm sure you do.
>> Have you seen in the fuel filter during this whole episode ?
>>
>> Scott
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "George"<skiplaubach@gmail.com>
>> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans"<scottdaniel@turbovans.com>
>> Cc:<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>> Sent: Monday, November 07, 2011 8:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: No start/ Yes spark II
>>
>>
>> 84 Westy 1.9 L
>>
>> Howdy. Me again. Well, after all the multimeter mustering, I decided to give
>> in and get a new/refurbished/used ECU. Ken at Vanagain was nice enough to
>> sell me a used one at a nice price. Bingo! Turn key, fuel pump whirs, and
>> the motor starts immediately.
>>
>> So, I shut her down, replace the engine cover and cushion, grab the SO, and
>> take hers for a spin around the block (5 miles/full speed). All good so far.
>>
>> Then I pull back into the garage, shut her down, then then turn the key to
>> restart. Fuel pump whirs, engine turns nicely, but no start. Tomorrow I'll
>> see if it restarts after it has an opportunity to cool down.
>>
>> So, I would like to nominate a change to this thread to Yes fuel pump/No
>> Start. Speaking of start, where should I?
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Skip
>> Elgin, IL
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 11:27 PM, "Scott Daniel - Turbovans"
>> <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>> If I understand you right..
>>> and you are reading voltage ( or using a 12V test light ) on the black
>>> wire that is on terminal '15' on the coil...
>>> I believe that should be there, with the key on.......steadily, like until
>>> the battery is dead.
>>>
>>> if there are any doubts........like something to do with the position or
>>> state of the distributor for example...
>>> disconnect the black wire from the coil terminal, then test.
>>> That 'key on' 12 volts should be there *always* .
>>> don't measure on the green wire on Terminal '1' on the coil..
>>> test black wire terminal 15...
>>> and for a pure 'is it there from the key when the key is on the 'on'
>>> position' ..
>>> disconnected it from the coil to take the reading.
>>>
>>> you thought about or considered ALL grounds in the van ?
>>> I have seen *the weirdest stuff you ever dreamed of' ...from a poorly
>>> conduction battery ground.
>>> The ground side of all DC circuits are just as important as the power
>>> side.
>>> and grounds for the fuel injection are super important.
>>> as simple a thing as the distributor harness ground not making good
>>> contact can make cause no ignition.
>>>
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Laubach"
>>> <skiplaubach@comcast.net>
>>> To: "Scott Daniel - Turbovans"<scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
>>> Cc:<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 3:06 PM
>>> Subject: Re: No start/ Yes spark II
>>>
>>>
>>> Ok, just ran the "ignition coil test" per Scott and Bentley 28.36. I have
>>> voltage for 2 - 3 seconds when I turn ignition on.
>>>
>>> Can I conclude that my ignition switch is OK?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Skip
>>> 84 Westy 1.9 L
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On Nov 3, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans
>>> <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I had an ignition switch that intermittently and distinctly did not
>>>> supply
>>>> '15' power during starter cranking.
>>>> This was in an 87 Syncro Doka with AAZ 1.9 TD engine.
>>>>
>>>> it would crank just fine, and had that syndrome where if you just let off
>>>> the 'start' position back to 'on'...
>>>> and catch it just right...the engine would still be turning a turn or two
>>>> when it got that '15' juice from the 'on' position in the ignition
>>>> switch,
>>>> and it would fire up.
>>>>
>>>> A new ignition switch fixed it just fine, so 100 % certain it was a bad
>>>> ign
>>>> sw.
>>>>
>>>> So might check that '15' voltage is present during starter cranking.
>>>> or try the 'catch it just right' method.
>>>> or just , as suggested, quickly plug in another ign switch and operate it
>>>> with a screw driver.
>>>>
>>>> scott
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "mark drillock"<mdrillock@COX.NET>
>>>> To:<vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 03, 2011 8:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: No start/ Yes spark II
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Don't give up just yet. There are a few more things you can do.
>>>>>
>>>>> When you have the 2 relay sockets jumpered does the fuel pump run
>>>>> constantly as it should?
>>>>>
>>>>> The relay/fuse panel pin D15 burnout problem is only on 86-91 vans.
>>>>> Earlier vans don't have that wiring arrangement.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only role the ignition switch plays in this is to provide power on a
>>>>> black wire from the key back to the ignition coil to power the coil, and
>>>>> from there to pin 85 of the 2 engine relay sockets as well as power the
>>>>> ignition module and hall unit. Since you say you have spark as well as
>>>>> power at the relay pin 85 there is little reason to suspect the ignition
>>>>> switch. Easy enough to connect a spare just to the harness and actuate
>>>>> it with a screwdriver just as a test, to avoid the full replacement if
>>>>> not needed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Mark
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Skip wrote:
>>>>>> 84 Westy 1.9L, no fuel pump running nor FI spray at start up, engine
>>>>>> turns over nicely.
>>>>>> .....
>>>>>> I think that I'll check that D15 connector, as well. I haven't
>>>>>> replaced
>>>>>> the ignition switch nor the Temp II sensor yet. I would like to
>>>>>> definitively isolate the root cause, first.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Skip
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> From: Steven Johnson<sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
>>>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>>>>> Sent: Wed, 02 Nov 2011 19:51:46 -0000 (UTC)
>>>>>> Subject: Re: No start/ Yes spark II
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Here is the reference on Samba:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=349429
>>>>>>
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