Date: Tue, 8 Nov 2011 12:57:17 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Re: '87 vanagon camper hesitating/bucking and bur
ning gas in méxico
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
there are two temp sensors on the thermostat housing.
The one pointing the left , usually..
with blue top , is the one that sends an input to the ECU ..that's your Temp
Sensor II..
the other one on the t-stat housing, usually on the forward side is for the
temp guage.
There's no cylinder head temp sensor anywhere on the engine.
If there is high idle or idle wierdness, disconnnt the electrical plug from
the Air Idle Valve ..a silver can right on top of the engine. It can run
fine with that disconnected.
with engine off, open throttle lever by hand and listen for a click.
You should hear one just off zero throttle.
About 2/3rds of the 2.1 waterboxers I see have that contact not working.
It's an important input to the ECU...so ecu knows engine is at idle. I have
completely turned around poorly running 2.1's by adjusting or fixing that
..and making sure timing isn't too advanced.
you've written Air Mass Meter a few times..
it has an Air Flow Meter ..a mechanical flapper type thing. 'usually' the
only problems I see them cause is uneven running.
it's normal to have some oil residue in the air intake track....though it's
usually not in the air flow meter..
in the air boot , yes , but not the air flow meter.
check your air intake boot for cracks.
they can seal at idle, but with engine movement open up a hole, cutting air
flow through the air mass meter.
Air that gets in between AFM and throttle plate is called 'false air' btw.
If it was me and it would still go, but run horribly, and I had tried many
things and not making progress..
I would probaly try getting to the next safe place.
and remember the 'turn-off-the-key' and then back on trick,, try that the
next time it acts up ..
my own 87 was cutting out horribly ..........and each time I did the key off
trick I got another half mile before it acted up again. I just left it in
gear, key-off-then-on ....and that resets things in the ecu ..
and I kept going .
that one was mainly the distributor ( hall sender ) in the end.
the distributor is so important I wouldn't go anywhere without a known spare
along.
Not only does it supply igntion ...
a far more critical function it preforms is the only way the ECU knows the
engine is turning ..and what the rpm is, is from it's being able to 'see'
the distributor ...it's a major input to the ecu.
I noticed that guy's post about moisture in contacts...at the ecu I think he
said.
that's unlikely ...but do consider ALL connections ..
and treat them all with something .....electrica contact cleaner ..
dielectric grease on grounds perhaps ...
on my 87 Wolfsburg, I was the first person to ever access or remove the
ECU ..the cover was really stuck on the pins it sits on. Finally had to pry
the ecu cover off with a big bar. There's a ground an ecu under there too,
btw.
scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "jes poynter" <clementineintwilight@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 6:57 AM
Subject: Re: '87 vanagon camper hesitating/bucking and burning gas in méxico
good morning all,
have been given some good suggestions about our problem(s) and
although i am concerned about having explained the issues corrrectly, it
seem that we've been able to rule out some things.
we disconnected the oxygen sensor, which was the most common
suggestion, and the problem still occurs. so we're going with that it
probably is not that.
it's been suggested, more than once to replace the temp sensor II
which, if my research is correct is not the coolant tem sensor but a
cylinder temp sensor. if any one is willing to elaborate more on this, for
example how i can determine which one we would need (i believe it is either
a square or a round one) it would be appreciated.
i feel as though i've checked all the hoses and everything seems to be
connected fine. i'm going to be cleaning the grounds this morning as i had
to get some supplies for that task.
a couple of things i've noticed to add to the concerns are that when
we start it up now, the idle is way high. and just sitting, it goes all
crazy jerky up and down. another thing, we had cleaned out the AMF and
found a little oil. it was mentioned that a little oil in the intake was
normal and nothing to be concerned about... then when i was underneath the
engine, there is what seems to be fresh oil on the bottom. perhaps i am
just really naive and this is the way the engine is, with little bits of
oil covering and seeping out. maybe it's just dirty from all the gas being
burned out. at least it's not a big leak, right? but i though i'd throw
it out there at least to have my concerns dismissed.
i'm feeling a little overwhelmed, as if there are so many things to
check and so many issues appearing. so i am mostly writing to inquire
about the damage we may do should we continue to drive in this state.
we've been in one place for 2 weeks and things aren't really changing.
we'd like to get back on the road and attempt to continue to resolve the
issues and better the engine in general as we go. is this a bad move? i
certainly don't want to do more damage.
thanks for everyone's time and efforts, they are very much
appreciated. i'll look forward to further education from all of you. be
well. jes
On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:22 PM, jes poynter <clementineintwilight@gmail.com
> wrote:
> hello all,
>
> this is my first email and i am new not only to the community but
> also to working on my vw :) i will do my best to be accurate and
> informed.
>
> we have been having issues with a lot of black smoke/gas burning as
> well as the hesitating and bucking that seems to be so common with the
> vanagons. we have had the fuel injectors cleaned, the coolant system
> checked out and have replaced the AMF most recently with the problem still
> occurring. we have had a friend here in the community send out our
> problem
> to you all yesterday and received the suggestions he was given regarding
> disconnecting the oxygen sensor and also cleaning the ground on the left
> cylinder head, both the connections and where it goes onto, as well as
> cleaning the distributor cap.
>
> i do apologize but i need to ask for your patience and expertise
> here. i am more than willing to learn how to work on this myself and do
> have a copy of our manual. however i am writing for guidance and
> elaboration on the above suggestions.
>
> in regards to the 1st suggestion of disconnecting the oxygen sensor,
> we did so at the connector and the problem seemed to persist during a test
> drive. i read elsewhere "Disconnect the Oxygen sensor wire and see if
> that
> does not correct the condition. It is the green wire on the extreme left
> side of the engine compartment." and am wondering if this is a good next
> step. so i went out to take a look and am just not sure which one is the
> correct wire. additionally, there seems to be one wire already
> disconnected, though it is a green and yellow/white wire with a yellow
> rectangular blade terminal (i think) at the disconnected end. is this
> supposed to be disconnected? is this the wire to the oxygen sensor
> already
> disconnected? if not, what is it and do i let it be?
>
> in regards to the 2nd suggestion, the easy part of cleaning the
> distributor cap i checked up on and it is very clean. the portion i am
> having more difficulty with is knowing exactly where to go to clean the
> ground on the left cylinder head. i honestly don't know where it is. i
> apologize but am genuinely asking to learn from anyone willing to teach me
> here in the community. a picture or a place in the manual to look for the
> picture would be very helpful to me as reference. and again my gratitude
> for your patience.
>
> i realize i can continue to look up pictures of these parts and glean
> info that way, which i will do, but i am reaching out as i have been
> dealing with this issue intensely for almost 2 weeks, working with other
> mechanics and not getting very far, literally as i am traveling with my
> family in méxico but we haven't driven anywhere in days.
>
> additionally, i should mention, i have been learning about the
> "vanagon syndrome" and researching the fix with the capacitor/transformer
> part and do see the options available there; i just don't want to have to
> wait on a part another week if there are options to check. i want to at
> least be active in attempting to understand the issue and learning about
> the engine. i have been reminded that i can learn to fix these issues
> myself with the help of those who know and are willing, as well as my own
> motivation. if there are any other specific questions i can answer for
> anyone who is interested in helping me resolve this, i'll gladly do so, of
> course. and i think it should be stated that any other suggestions are
> most welcome.
>
> thanks! jes
