Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 15:36:56 -0800
Reply-To: BenT Syncro <syncro@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: BenT Syncro <syncro@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: GoWesty's Gear Reduction Starter
In-Reply-To: <CAO+YcsK9P5vStTLhXWTyT9EWv_sQu7-mDTSxaRuPjv=+X-=y6Q@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
OK, Penisioner. Did you ever notice the striking resemblance between Peggy and a certain Bay Area Syncronaut?
BenT
sent from my broken stater
On Nov 20, 2011, at 1:57 PM, Al Knoll <anasasi@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
> Our esteemed membership mentions:
>
>>>> As for starter performance the permanent magnet, gear reduction starters
> are
> becoming extremely common due to their light weight and low cost.<<<
>
> Not really low system cost, see below.
>
> and
>
>>>> Thank you. I've had the same issues with Bosch rebuilds. One was slow
> cranking. The second one has an occasionally sticking solenoid. This on an
> automatic with an inline-4 installed at 15 degrees.<<<
>
> I too took the WestyVentures TDI path. Mixed results. To adapt the
> adapter to work on a syncro transmission with locking differential requires
> quite a bit of grinding and fitting. Clearly explained by Karl and
> understood by me. However the TDI starter itself requires some grinding of
> the flange to get it to fit. This makes it pretty testy to have Bosch
> replace the TDI starter if it fails (two did) Not an inexpensive venture
> and a questionable solution at best. Both TDI starters (new by the way)
> failed with internal shorts drawing massive amounts of current and
> blistering the paint on the starter body all within six months and
> 5000mi. Why they failed? Yet unknown. But TWO sequential starters failed
> this way. The second failure involved the starter failing to STOP when the
> start signal was removed (no problem with the ignition key
> switch) It continued to spin merrily along (not engaged with the ring gear
> as the 'bendix' failed too). Disconnecting the mains at the battery brought
> the show to a halt.
>
> Thanks to a liberal application of increasingly rare frogskin lubricant
> ($$) and the heroic and much-appreciated work of StephansAutoHaus here
> in Sacramento the problem was segwayed into installing a SR401X
> (remanufactured?? Bosch 'classic') which worked for a few days then became
> increasingly difficult to engage and had the deadly slow crank problem.
> Made the timid owner fearful of venturing far beyond the reach of tows to
> Stephans. Now it must be noted here that NONE of the maladies had anything
> to do with the quality of service or repairs at S.A.H. It was all BOSCH
> equipment failures. The 401X failure was an
> internally malfunctioning "solenoid" right out of the box from
> "Peggy". BOSCH Customer service and the kewl little blue
> guarantee/warranty thingy in the box is PDW (pretty damn worthless).
> Simply an advertising ploy to snare the customer into providing free
> quality assurance final testing of their products (Kinda like Microslop and
> Service Packs). Repeated calls to BOSCH-offshore (their CS answering folks
> in lordy-knows-where, who all seem to named Peggy or something) was
> fruitless.
>
> The good news is that SAH once again filled the breech with warranty from
> their supplier (WorldPac) and installed the second SR-401X "remanufactured
> in Peggy's basement" starter and it works dandily so far. No other
> changes to the van at that time. FWIW Bosch Reman is done abroad just
> beyond the sunset at BurningVan not in Merkel-land-of-the-Euro as you might
> guess.
>
> I actually haven't had the chance to test it all that much as the venerable
> van has been pretty much deadlined over the summer with two attempts at
> repairing the transaxle by a vendor. The van is of course now resident
> camping at SAH while the transaxle is being repaired once again. 11Kmi on
> the first repair. Since April of 2008, I have put only ~12K dawdling,
> meandering miles on the van, not by choice but shall we say, by
> circumstances beyond my control. Been through four, count em four, BOSCH
> starters of two types (TDI and 401X) in that mileage time. Snicketted for
> sure. Bad Juju? Butt, who nose?
>
> We have spoken before about our venerable road-divas-in-decline and the
> cost of entertaining such demanding old ladies, as hardening of the tubes
> and entropy robs them of their youthful beauty. Perhaps these are rich
> men's follies, expecting things to work out for the best. Wooden sailboats
> and airplanes seem cheaper.
>
> With SAH, warranty repair is never a problem. BOSCH and other vendors not
> so much. Even the computer-generated BOSCH warranty on the fancy blue
> paper is worthless birdcage liner. So my advice is get the estimate in
> advance, get a written warranty dated and signed if necessary before
> venturing out into the wilderness or even just down the road.
>
> And insofar as "Slow Barley" ( quote below) is concerned, I'm all for slow
> and perhaps protracted barley therapy to take the edge off starting the
> syncro and the other maintenance problems. I prefer IBU>40 for my barley
> therapies.
>
> To wit:
>
>>>> Dennis mentions
> As for rebuilds even the Bosch brand is hit or miss. On a recent automatic
> it took
> three attempts to get a correct, properly working starter.
>
> Did the slow barley crank it thing. Confirmed all circuits and battery OK.
> Got another Bosch
> SR25X and cranks wonderfully. Slow cranking starters are not normal.
> <<<
>
> ...see above
>
> Neither are folks like me, who are slow, cranky, persnickety starters, and
> prone to barley therapy along the way ...
>
>
> Pensionerd (shiftless at the moment and Jonesin' for camping)
