Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2011 11:02:58 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Advice request; 1986 WESTY Vanagon automatic
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="utf-8"; reply-type=response
hI Art ..
now for the first time I notice 'stove' and 'canvas.'
May I suggest............*never* call and 86 Westy an '86 GL' ..
totally different vanagons in terms of value and cost.
Heck..I had a local guy come by saying he bought an '84 Vanagon' for $ 500
and would I go check it out some ..
and most 84 Vanagons could be worth only 500 bucks or so ...
I get there ..
first it's an 85 ..which is a whole step up in vanagon lineage ..
then on top of that ..it's a very deluxe 85 Westy , with a very rare single
jump seat in back ...
So his discription of the vhelice was off by about 10 to 1.
I will share some of my thoughts on repainted cars and vanagons.
First ........I have seen about 3 actually decent paint jobs in my entire
career on cars and vanagons ..
nearly 50 years...
many paint jobs are crap work actually ....so be careful there.
In addition .....when a ised vehcile 'LOOKS s good' ............that's a Red
Flag actually.
I have seen countless really good LOOKING vanagons that were very neglected
and run down mechanically.
In terms of selling a van .....in my perception people don't really have
much mechanical savvy at all, and only have appearance to go on. I have had
a potential buyer get within 30 feet of a car with a small dent in a fender
and decide the whole car was junk right there...........when it was actually
very mechanically sound and good-driving.
any time you see cheap new tires on a vehcile for sale ..
that means they more or less 'just drove it' and when they decided it's time
to sell, they looked for anything they could do to make it 'look' good
...cheap new tires are the quickest easiest way to do that.
same for new shocks..
brand new shocks , especially cheap ones, can mean they drove it with tired
shocks for years ..
then slapped some on for the sale.
and unfortunately .......many people do not realize that the shocks help
keep the suspension healthy ..
and that driving with worn out shocks is not only unsafe ..
and thus irresponsible to other people on the roads .....it also contirbutes
to wearing out of the suspension, especiallyt he fronts.
so be careful about vanagons that *look* really good ...
they can need a lot electrically and mechanically some times.
It still sounds like it could be a good Westy for you ...
and that you have an idea what you are getting into.
and the price is about what it should be.
'some companies' would sell the same van for $ 12K, even more.
scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Art" <awa0330@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 9:35 PM
Subject: Re: Advice request; 1986 Vanagon automatic
> Thanks Scott.
> Your project sounds like fun indeed, but something that's way beyond my
> capacity. I'll certainly need to learn more and find the time as well to
> do
> some repair and service on my own, but will need to depend on a reliable
> mechanic. The odd thing is that I will be buying this from afar. Several
> dozen pictures attest to good looking body condition. It was repainted
> white
> about 2 years ago...not the color I would have chosen, but I can live with
> it. I did speak with the mechanic that worked on the van and saw work
> papers. They took average but not exceptional care of it. New canvas all
> around, upgraded wheels and new excellent tires Stove and rest work
> although the fridge is typically adequate at best. Easily rectified
> however. Acquisition price will be close to $8,000. Good condition in the
> interior, and it did not sit around much but was used. It appears to be
> in
> better condition outwardly than many others that I've seen. And indeed
> the
> mileage report is a "robust" 16 MPG.
>
> Art
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 10:53 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Advice request; 1986 Vanagon automatic
>
> The original main question was whether they guy should 'run like hell'
> since
> it's an automatic.
>
> I would say .........'no, not by itself, as a factor."
>
> some people want automatics. If doing a lot of traffic driving ...they can
> be nice.
> An auto trans vanagon uses more fuel than a manual trans one.
> On my own Wolfsburg Weekender, with 2.1 wbxr engine and auto trans ..
> driven nicely, it did 16.5 mpg on the highway.
> I consider 18 mpg the lowest figure that I could ever live with .
> and prefer at least 20 mph on the highway.
>
> in town, in the winter, it did 14 mpg !
> So I would say an auto trans eats about 3 mpg roughly.
>
> There's less control on snow and ice ...another factor to consider.
>
> now ..about an 86 with 108K miles on it .
> sounds decent.
> and ..
> how much is the asking price ?
> how rusted or banged up is it ?
> and is it in full working order ?
>
> I work on vanagons exclusively and full time.
> 'Usually' ..........regardless of how much has been spent on them ..
> I typically find dozens , dozens and dozens of areas that need more
> attention.
> ..or really ..
> attention they never got since the factory .
> I find hundreds of spots on them that have never been lubed, or adjsuted,
> etc.
>
> so it depends on how well it was taken care of.
> In my entire career, I have seen exactly two used cars that were REALLY
> actually taken care of.
>
> Most are fixed when they break, which is just an awful way to take care of
> any vehicle.
>
> Low miels are nice.
> and it could still need all kinds of things.
>
> One thing you really want to avoid ..
> is a van that has just 'been driven' .....and then when one system , say
> breaks, needs work, that One System was worked on ,
> meanwhile..........the CV joints are never serviced, the trans ATF and
> differential oil are never changed..
> the battery box floor is full of battery corrosion and rust, the shocks
> are
> cheap or original etc...
>
> so 'it depends.'
> Once in a while there will be a van that someone really cared about, and
> ACTUALLY maintained.
> That's the kind you would like to find to buy.
> And pay well for it.
>
> an 86 GL to me ....
> for one in full working order in every way ...
> I value one of those at $ 6K easily.
> on the other end of the scale..
> as low as $ 1,500 for one that works fairly well and seems 'ok, more or
> less.'
>
> I also factor in color. It's nice to have one with exterior and interior
> colors that you like, or at least don't dislike.
> I factor in the seller too..
> ideally ...it'll be a person you thing is a decent sort and wasn't cheap
> about taking care of their van.
>
> and I will also say ..
> I see this *constantly* .
> say a Westy that some guy 'just loves that van' ...
> and yet..
> no body ...I mean but no body ..
> not the owner, not any shops ........no one ...
> can do simple things like lube a sliding door, or any latch ..
> dozens of things like that..
> actually ..
> Vanagons do amazingly well for the very poor care that most of them get.
> I get a used one..
> and I immediately have to do about 200 things to it ..
> since *actually* taking care of them is not that common, based on what I
> see.
>
> I'd say ...if most of the factors seem about right ..
> price makes sense, there's miniman rust and dings ..
> it works well..
> the selller seems have knowledgible and caring ..
> buy it.
>
> The 'automatic part' ..
> 'usually' .........that is 'points off' when selling ..
> but..............some people really want an automatic.
>
> heck ..I have an 86 GL myself ...
> nice project van with zero rust, silver paint, perfect blue interior
> .........only one ding on the nose that doesn't show much ..
> and I just realized........I have this subaru legacy 2.2 engine ..
> and I was going to put that engine into a manual trans van ..
> but ..
> that requires a lot of parts..( for manual trans )
> but to put this subaru engine onto a vanagon auto trans ..
> only takes one part ..
> an under $ 400 adatper and torque converter driveplate from KEP ..( I
> already have an engine mounting bar )
> so I'm going that way with my auto trans 86 ..........use it to get this
> subaru engine conversion all built and running.
>
>
> anyway ..what fun,.
> Buy it unless it's a real mess or the price is very high, or it's
> rusted/abused etc.
> They are fantastic vehilces !
>
> scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dennis Haynes" <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Saturday, November 26, 2011 7:14 AM
> Subject: Re: Advice request; 1986 Vanagon automatic
>
>
> If you're planning to just buy this van and then go on a long journey be
> prepared. While a 25 year old vehicle with only 108,000 miles seems like a
> great deal you need to keep in mind that it is in fact a 25 year old
> vehicle. If you think this is a bargain it may not be for long. If in in
> fact it is low mileage and is great shape why hasn't it been used? When
> you
> put it to use and make it work many parts that appear good now will begin
> to
> fail. Cooling hoses and plastic parts will turn into engine damage. Those
> 25
> year old engine gaskets will seek attention. Tires, brake hoses,
> suspension
> parts, heater cores, blower fans, air conditioning. All these systems will
> reach into your wallet at some point.
>
> As far as wheel/tire replacement yes there are a lot of reasons to
> upgrade.
> But these vans can run fine on the original as designed set and if money
> is
> an issue just work on proper tires. The AC being disconnected is a sign
> that
> a previous owner sought to save money and this may have transferred to
> other maintenance issues.
>
> Some points:
> It is for sale for a reason. Why does the current owner no longer want it?
> Whatever you pay for it that is just the down payment. If you pay little
> you
> know it needs attention. If you pay a lot you have high expectations and
> you
> will want to get it there.
> No matter how much you inspect it you need to use as desired to find out
> what it really needs.
> If you are not a mechanic you need to plan to become one. Supporting any
> 25
> year old vehicle that you plan to actually use becomes expensive real
> fast.
> As you travel far from home be sure to have funds available for many
> things.
> You won't be the frost or last that needs an engine or transmission 1,000
> miles from home. AAA! Rent a U-haul and trailer to get it home. $$$
>
> I know I sound a bit harsh here but I have folks come to me all the time
> with recently purchase Vanagons that develop all sorts of issues. There
> are
> also a lot of issues due to poor workmanship and unknowledgeable shops.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Art
> Sent: Friday, November 25, 2011 7:12 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Advice request; 1986 Vanagon automatic
>
> Hi all,
>
> I’m not an experienced Vanagon owner...yet. I’m investigating a 1986
> Vanagon with 108,000 miles on it. If I buy it, I’ll probably replace the
> fridge with an electric model from GoWesty. This unit has the built in
> stove
> and fridge. My plan is to take a couple of months and simply travel
> around.
> I have 3 questions that I’d love some help with;
>
> It’s an automatic. should I run like hell? I haven’t found any serious
> warning signs on bogs or in research so far.
>
> Many recommend upgrading from 14” wheels & tires to larger. It’s a heck
> of
> an expense. Any thoughts?
>
> AC has been disconnected because it is barely adequate anyhow. I seem to
> see that this is a condition of these units. any solutions other than
> simply dealing with the lack of AC that makes sense?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help!
>
> Art.
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