Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 07:29:59 -0600
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Vanagon engine noise - collapsed lifter?
In-Reply-To: <073601ccb18d$221bbcd0$6401a8c0@PROSPERITY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks Scott. FWIW, regarding different brands of oils not being enough different to matter: I became very displeased with BP (I still am, but then all the oil companies are guilty as charged). So, I switched from using Castrol 20W50, which had served me well, to Pennzoil 20W50. I noticed that my oil pressure gauge was reading about 10 psi lower once the engine was well warmed up than it had been when I was running Castrol. I drained out the Pennzoil and replaced it with Castrol. Again, I noticed a difference of about 10 psi higher at operating temperature. Clearly, this is not a definitive tests (particularly, ambient temperature, driving time, speed, are all uncontrolled variables, and two data points do not make an experiment). However, until something better at the same price comes along, I guess I will, reluctantly, stick with the Castrol.
BTW, I suspect that the Joe Gibbs oil is simply one of the major brands, with that label on it. That is the case for most products with private labels. A refinery and so on is a pretty big thing to build. But again, what do I know?
mcneely
---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
> hi ..
> all good points.
> I personally can not say how much high zinc formulation oil can harm or not
> harm a cat,
> but I bet the affect is very minimal on the cat ....just my hunch.
> Contact someone like Joe Gibbs Racing ............
> http://joegibbsdriven.com/
>
> I'm sure they've been asked this question a million times.
> I use Shell Rotella ..
> that's a fine oil. I use the 15W40.
> among same types of oils that cost about the same ...
> I don't think there really is much difference between the same grade and
> wieght oil whether it's from Chevron or Shell or Castrol..
> among oils of about the same type and price range.
>
> Then you get into synthetics ...I don't especially believe one is head and
> shoulders better than the other offerings..
> though Dennis did report 200+ K miles with Mobil 1 ....
> that's good to hear. Mabye I'll run that in my tightest newest vanagon
> engine .
>
> I think 'how' an engine and a vehcile is driven and operated is almost more
> important than what's in the engine for oil as long as the oil is in good
> condition.
>
> 'forever' my rule for making a VW engine last very well is ....
> 1. Keep good clean oil in it.
> 2. Keep it in perfect tune and working order.
> 3. Drive it nice. .
>
> do those 3 and most VW engines will last as long as hey are able to.
> Change the coolant too !
> I think I'll plug in my block heater and see if that helps my good vanagon's
> engine reach operating temp sooner.
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Mcneely" <mcneely4@COX.NET>
> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 7:40 AM
> Subject: Re: Vanagon engine noise - collapsed lifter?
>
>
> > Scott, I know you have recommended high zinc oils before, but the
> > recommendation confuses me. The Vanagon has a catalytic converter.
> > Modern API oils are supposed to be backward compatible, so, we are up to
> > what, grade M or N now? But it is supposed to provide protection for any
> > vehicle requiring earlier grades. Is this manufacturer's mumbo-jumbo, or
> > is it accurate? If your recommendation really should be followed, then we
> > are being told incorrectly by the manufacturers. I would think that if a
> > shop uses a high zinc oil and poisons a converter, then the shop is liable
> > for replacement and may be subject to a fine for damaging pollution
> > control systems. But, what do I know? Not much, maybe. BTW, in the
> > past you have recommended Shell Rotatella. Is the Joe Gibbs oil better?
> > In what way? mcneely
> >
> > ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >> I recommend Joe Gibbs Racing High Zinc Formulation 15W50 "Hot Rod' oil..
> >> specifically formulated for flat tappet older type engines..
> >> and with extra corrosion inhibitors for less modern type cars that sit
> >> some
> >> between uses.
> >>
> >> For oil weight I go by how new/old the engine is ..
> >> and time of year and ambient temps.
> >>
> >> I don't think that the brand itself is that big a factor ..
> >> some, but not a major factor as long as you are getting a quality
> >> product.
> >>
> >> modern API oils have less zinc to help protect catalytic converters on
> >> more
> >> modern cars.
> >> Many modern cars have roller cam followers for just that reason ..
> >> for example the 99 Subaru SOHC 2.2 has roller cam followers, where they
> >> had
> >> flat tappet type cam followers before that ...
> >> Modern API oils are not the same oil formulation we used to get say 20
> >> yrs
> >> ago.
> >> But you can still get high zinc formulation oils like the one above.
> >>
> >> Joe Gibbs Racing ..
> >> the site tells about it.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:49 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Vanagon engine noise - collapsed lifter?
> >>
> >>
> >> > Interesting. My local VW Guru says the Mobil One synthetic in a 15W50
> >> > is
> >> > the way to go. That is why I have used it for the last 10-12 years. He
> >> > recommends the Castrol 20W50 if the Mobil One in 15W50 is not
> >> > available.
> >> > And I confess - it has gotten difficult to find the Mobil One 15W50
> >> > There is plenty of the other grades of Mobil One, but not the 15W50.
> >> > Ironically - having three vans - I'm running three different oils. But
> >> > my daily driver - which got a new engine in 2000 - after break-in has
> >> > been running the Mobil One pretty much ever since. The other two -
> >> > which
> >> > don't see the heavy use of daily driving - use the brands that were
> >> > being used when I got them. So - #1 van -'ol Red - '88GL runs Mobil
> >> > One,
> >> > #2 van - Gus - '88GL runs Kendall GT, and #3 van - a '91 Carat - runs
> >> > who knows what. It's a project van and while it runs, it's parked as
> >> > work progresses. Never have changed the oil. It was clean and clear
> >> > when
> >> > I got it. No idea what oil it is however. I did find some empty Castrol
> >> > bottles in it though, when I got it.
> >> >
> >> > Just saying.
> >> >
> >> > John
> >> >
> >> > John Rodgers
> >> > Clayartist and Moldmaker
> >> > 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> >> > Chelsea, AL
> >> > Http://www.moldhaus.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On 12/1/2011 9:58 AM, Jim Felder wrote:
> >> >> John and others FYI--
> >> >>
> >> >> My local VW gurus recommend against synthetics in a Vanagon. Castrol
> >> >> 20W50
> >> >> is recommended. In my experience, you are asking for a buzzer moment
> >> >> with
> >> >> anything thinner.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jim
> >> >>
> >> >> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:04 PM, John Rodgers<inua@charter.net>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Collapsed lifter syndrome. Not to worry. Drive it a bit and it will
> >> >>> pump
> >> >>> up. A few that help to keep it from happening - Mann Oil Filter,
> >> >>> hi-grade synthetic oil like Mobil One in 15W50 wt. Add a dash of
> >> >>> Marvel's Mystery Oil. These steps will extend the time between
> >> >>> periods
> >> >>> of lifter flatness. But - it will run great, no no probs - until you
> >> >>> park it wrong and then it will go flat. Just drive it, and it will
> >> >>> pump
> >> >>> up. You will need to run it every two or three days to keep them
> >> >>> pumped.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On an aside, good maintenance on your AC if you have it, is to run it
> >> >>> once a week, winter and summer - to keep the seals lubricated so they
> >> >>> don't dry out and lose the refrigerant.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John
> >> >>>
> >> >>> John Rodgers
> >> >>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> >> >>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> >> >>> Chelsea, AL
> >> >>> Http://www.moldhaus.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On 11/30/2011 12:22 PM, Todd Last wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> My Vanagon has been sitting for awhile and upon starting, is making
> >> >>>> a
> >> >>>> noise and puffing out a fair amount of smoke.
> >> >>>> Is this a collapsed lifter?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> I made a short video here:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> <http://www.flipshare.com/**login.aspx?nRecipient=**
> >> >>>> N0I5MzFDMkItQzNGNy00RjVELUE4MD**AtNjdFODNEOTREMjQy&nFrame=**
> >> >>>> RDBBNUE5QkYtQTAwRS00N0Y3LThDNk**MtM0UzNDU5OTZCOEQx&nMethod=**
> >> >>>> ZW1haWw=&nMedia=**ODkxRUM0NDYtQ0UyQi00ODk0LTkyNE**UtNTEyODYxMEMxQjEy&emt=
> >> >>>> **de084a1a-1ea9-454d-8bff-**ac2049edb15b&slocale=en_US&**
> >> >>>> emailThumbnail=single<http://www.flipshare.com/login.aspx?nRecipient=N0I5MzFDMkItQzNGNy00RjVELUE4MDAtNjdFODNEOTREMjQy&nFrame=RDBBNUE5QkYtQTAwRS00N0Y3LThDNkMtM0UzNDU5OTZCOEQx&nMethod=ZW1haWw=&nMedia=ODkxRUM0NDYtQ0UyQi00ODk0LTkyNEUtNTEyODYxMEMxQjEy&emt=de084a1a-1ea9-454d-8bff-ac2049edb15b&slocale=en_US&emailThumbnail=single>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Todd
> >> >>>> '88 Westy
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >
> > --
> > David McNeely
>
--
David McNeely
| 
