Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2011 12:42:48 -0600
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Synthetic Oil selection?
In-Reply-To: <91BFFD8F-5054-4098-A7AD-73685DA14024@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
---- Tom Torrella <ttorrella4@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> Questions: Is it ok to switch to synthetic oils in my 83 vanagon with 193,800 miles? The multi-grade is only good to outside temps of 85*F, will that be a problem to use in hotter climates?
The proper grade of oil to use is the one that the owner's manual says to use at a given temperature. Synthetic oils that meet the grade recommendation of the Vanagon owner's manual are available. For high ambient temperatures a multigrade should be something like 15W50 or 20W50, and these will go to higher ambient temperatures than you mentioned. One interpretation of the waterboxer oil grade recommendation is to use a single grade 40W at high ambient temperatures (above 90 F). Most folks go with the 15W50 or 20W50. Of course, your '83 might not be a waterboxer. If it is air cooled, then the recommendations may be a bit different, I don't know. My belief, and notice the word I used, is that the extra money for synthetic oil is simply money paid to the oil companies for their bottom line, unless one is willing to run the oil for excess miles between changes. Lots of knowledgeable people advocate that. mcneely
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 3, 2011, at 9:03 AM, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>
> > While the Vanagon has flat tappets the concern really does not apply here. Compared to American V8s and especially racing engines our lifter faces and cam lobes are huge, the rockers are near 1 to 1 ratios and out valve springs are soft, with low lifts. We do not run at 9,000 rpm and out cams are almost submerged in the oil. In other words we do not generate the pressures while sliding the lobe across the lifter that these other engines do. Also, these additives can accumulate over time. Racing engines don’t have that concern since they are frequently torn down. Racing oil are not designed for long engine life, just maximum protection for a race period. I doubt there are many 250,000 mile race engines out there.
> >
> > BTW the Mobil 1, 15w-50 is a high ZDDP oil although nowhere near the Joe Gibbs product. They have also announced they will be bringing it back in 5 quart jugs for Wal-Mart in response to customer demand.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
> > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2011 10:41 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Vanagon engine noise - collapsed lifter?
> >
> > Scott, I know you have recommended high zinc oils before, but the recommendation confuses me. The Vanagon has a catalytic converter. Modern API oils are supposed to be backward compatible, so, we are up to what, grade M or N now? But it is supposed to provide protection for any vehicle requiring earlier grades. Is this manufacturer's mumbo-jumbo, or is it accurate? If your recommendation really should be followed, then we are being told incorrectly by the manufacturers. I would think that if a shop uses a high zinc oil and poisons a converter, then the shop is liable for replacement and may be subject to a fine for damaging pollution control systems. But, what do I know? Not much, maybe. BTW, in the past you have recommended Shell Rotatella. Is the Joe Gibbs oil better? In what way? mcneely
> >
> > ---- Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> wrote:
> >> I recommend Joe Gibbs Racing High Zinc Formulation 15W50 "Hot Rod' oil..
> >> specifically formulated for flat tappet older type engines..
> >> and with extra corrosion inhibitors for less modern type cars that sit
> >> some between uses.
> >>
> >> For oil weight I go by how new/old the engine is ..
> >> and time of year and ambient temps.
> >>
> >> I don't think that the brand itself is that big a factor ..
> >> some, but not a major factor as long as you are getting a quality product.
> >>
> >> modern API oils have less zinc to help protect catalytic converters on
> >> more modern cars.
> >> Many modern cars have roller cam followers for just that reason ..
> >> for example the 99 Subaru SOHC 2.2 has roller cam followers, where
> >> they had flat tappet type cam followers before that ...
> >> Modern API oils are not the same oil formulation we used to get say 20
> >> yrs ago.
> >> But you can still get high zinc formulation oils like the one above.
> >>
> >> Joe Gibbs Racing ..
> >> the site tells about it.
> >>
> >> Scott
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "John Rodgers" <inua@CHARTER.NET>
> >> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
> >> Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2011 8:49 AM
> >> Subject: Re: Vanagon engine noise - collapsed lifter?
> >>
> >>
> >>> Interesting. My local VW Guru says the Mobil One synthetic in a
> >>> 15W50 is the way to go. That is why I have used it for the last
> >>> 10-12 years. He recommends the Castrol 20W50 if the Mobil One in 15W50 is not available.
> >>> And I confess - it has gotten difficult to find the Mobil One 15W50
> >>> There is plenty of the other grades of Mobil One, but not the 15W50.
> >>> Ironically - having three vans - I'm running three different oils.
> >>> But my daily driver - which got a new engine in 2000 - after
> >>> break-in has been running the Mobil One pretty much ever since. The
> >>> other two - which don't see the heavy use of daily driving - use the
> >>> brands that were being used when I got them. So - #1 van -'ol Red -
> >>> '88GL runs Mobil One,
> >>> #2 van - Gus - '88GL runs Kendall GT, and #3 van - a '91 Carat -
> >>> runs who knows what. It's a project van and while it runs, it's
> >>> parked as work progresses. Never have changed the oil. It was clean
> >>> and clear when I got it. No idea what oil it is however. I did find
> >>> some empty Castrol bottles in it though, when I got it.
> >>>
> >>> Just saying.
> >>>
> >>> John
> >>>
> >>> John Rodgers
> >>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> >>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> >>> Chelsea, AL
> >>> Http://www.moldhaus.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On 12/1/2011 9:58 AM, Jim Felder wrote:
> >>>> John and others FYI--
> >>>>
> >>>> My local VW gurus recommend against synthetics in a Vanagon.
> >>>> Castrol
> >>>> 20W50
> >>>> is recommended. In my experience, you are asking for a buzzer
> >>>> moment with anything thinner.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 9:04 PM, John Rodgers<inua@charter.net> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Collapsed lifter syndrome. Not to worry. Drive it a bit and it
> >>>>> will pump up. A few that help to keep it from happening - Mann Oil
> >>>>> Filter, hi-grade synthetic oil like Mobil One in 15W50 wt. Add a
> >>>>> dash of Marvel's Mystery Oil. These steps will extend the time
> >>>>> between periods of lifter flatness. But - it will run great, no no
> >>>>> probs - until you park it wrong and then it will go flat. Just
> >>>>> drive it, and it will pump up. You will need to run it every two
> >>>>> or three days to keep them pumped.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On an aside, good maintenance on your AC if you have it, is to run
> >>>>> it once a week, winter and summer - to keep the seals lubricated
> >>>>> so they don't dry out and lose the refrigerant.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John
> >>>>>
> >>>>> John Rodgers
> >>>>> Clayartist and Moldmaker
> >>>>> 88'GL VW Bus Driver
> >>>>> Chelsea, AL
> >>>>> Http://www.moldhaus.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 11/30/2011 12:22 PM, Todd Last wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> My Vanagon has been sitting for awhile and upon starting, is
> >>>>>> making a noise and puffing out a fair amount of smoke.
> >>>>>> Is this a collapsed lifter?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I made a short video here:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> <http://www.flipshare.com/**login.aspx?nRecipient=**
> >>>>>> N0I5MzFDMkItQzNGNy00RjVELUE4MD**AtNjdFODNEOTREMjQy&nFrame=**
> >>>>>> RDBBNUE5QkYtQTAwRS00N0Y3LThDNk**MtM0UzNDU5OTZCOEQx&nMethod=**
> >>>>>> ZW1haWw=&nMedia=**ODkxRUM0NDYtQ0UyQi00ODk0LTkyNE**UtNTEyODYxMEMxQ
> >>>>>> jEy&emt=
> >>>>>> **de084a1a-1ea9-454d-8bff-**ac2049edb15b&slocale=en_US&**
> >>>>>> emailThumbnail=single<http://www.flipshare.com/login.aspx?nRecipi
> >>>>>> ent=N0I5MzFDMkItQzNGNy00RjVELUE4MDAtNjdFODNEOTREMjQy&nFrame=RDBBN
> >>>>>> UE5QkYtQTAwRS00N0Y3LThDNkMtM0UzNDU5OTZCOEQx&nMethod=ZW1haWw=&nMed
> >>>>>> ia=ODkxRUM0NDYtQ0UyQi00ODk0LTkyNEUtNTEyODYxMEMxQjEy&emt=de084a1a-
> >>>>>> 1ea9-454d-8bff-ac2049edb15b&slocale=en_US&emailThumbnail=single>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Todd
> >>>>>> '88 Westy
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >
> > --
> > David McNeely
--
David McNeely
| 
