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Date:         Tue, 13 Dec 2011 08:52:15 -0700
Reply-To:     OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject:      Re: Integrated AM/FM and Stealth CB (alarm) Antenna -- Anybody?
Comments: To: Derek Drew <derekdrew@DEREKMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <4ee7401c.68b8ec0a.35ec.0211@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes

Hey Derek

I know next to nothing about CB but your post here peaked my curiosity & while

doing some browsing on the WWW regarding the subject I stumbled onto this site that

appears to maybe have something that might be a solution for you.

http://www.eglidegoodies.com/id126.html

You mention " inside the fiberglass " so I'm assuming you have a Westy & so I was

looking around to see if there might possibly be an antenna that could be hidden in the

luggage tray. If CB antennas don't need to be vertical & exposed it seems that there may

be all sorts of solutions available.

ORR ~ DeanB

On 13 Dec , 2011, at 5:07 AM, Derek Drew wrote:

> This email is a query for someone knowledgeable about radio and CB > antennas to speak up. > > I've been parking for 30 years on the streets of Manhattan, and have > had little trouble. But its still nice to have the assurance of the > beepers going off if the bad guys come. In general, if they see > anything inside the van, they break in, but if they don't see > anything they don't, possibly because the van is too weird looking > and the owner's reaction to its being entered too unpredictable for > comfort. By contrast, I used to find people sleeping in my 72 bus all > the time in NYC in wintertime, but they never hurt anything aside > from the lingering after-smell of that type of person. > > I have a car alarm that transmits on a CB frequency (27Mhz) to alert > my beepers if somebody enters the vehicle while I am away from it. > > When I have to park too far from the apartment or be very high in a > tall office building, I turn a switch that ups the power of the 27Mhz > alarm signal from 4 watts to 50 watts, and this allows me to depend > on the signal penetrating basements and reach 6 long city blocks > instead of 2. > > I am having to mess with my antenna now and am wondering if anybody > had worked out how to get a quality setup for the antenna to transmit > on the CB bands as well as general AM/FM use. I could install a > dedicated CB antenna, but I'd prefer to use the factory OEM AM/FM > antenna for this purpose, or if I install a 2nd dedicated CB antenna > instead, I'd like it to be stealthy and not hurtful to the eye. (Most > CB antennas hurt my eye, or hurt themselves whacking trees above > while driving on parkways.) > > Normally, trying to use the stock antenna for both CB and AM/FM use > is possible, but the CB functionality is greatly degraded because > such antennas are the wrong length, and AM/FM antennas are generally > a joke for CB use for many other reasons... as I understand it the > lack of a ground plane, lack of proper resonant frequencies, no coil > load, etc. > > Accordingly, what I'd like to hear from a radio-head is what CB > antenna might be suitable to be used with Vanagon with the goal of > it being at least better than trying to use a stock OEM antenna, but > not look too much different from a standard AM/FM antenna (stealth). > If the antenna looks too much like a CB antenna, the bad guys might > break it off proactively, or worse, assume that there is a CB inside > the vehicle that they could steal, and it could be an inducement for > them to break in. > > For all I know, a radio-knowledgeable person would say to just string > something inside the fiberglass, or make a non-standard flat antenna, > or some non-traditional design. > > For my implementation, I'll either re-use the ancient Autopage > transmitter I have been using, which transmits at 27.195, or I will > implement a more modern solution, such as the DIRECTED ELECTRONICS > 795T or 795W CAR ALARM 3 CHANNEL VIBRATING PAGER (example: > http://www.amazon.com/DEI-795W-3-CHANNEL-VIBRATING-RECEIVER/dp/B00076WWTY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323776835&sr=8-1 > or > http://www.ebay.com/itm/330653062442?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649 > ) > > I provide these links in case anybody else decides that they want to > be paged if somebody enters their vehicle without their knowledge and > they want a hint as to how to go about it. The device is simply > plugged into whatever alarm system is currently in the vehicle, or > even connected to door-pin operation, so it can operate along side of > any other alarm system functionality. Be advised that some modern car > alarms have the ability to transmit an alert to the remote control > as well (which would be almost a duplicate functionality) and > manufactures claim up to a mile reception of such a device. However, > i still want the old functionality to co-exist with the new one, > provided I eventually implement the new one, for added > assurance. For the record, other systems one can employ for added > assurance include Google maps / GPS transmitters (you can look Google > Maps to see where your rig is), Canadian model extended range car > alarms, and so-called "telematic" alarms that operate through the > Internet, effectively providing infinite range. > > Last time I tried to come up with a dual/CB AM FM antenna that could > transmit 50 watts on CB, the only solution I could find was to send > an OEM antenna out to Sti-Co, a company that specializes in making > stealth antennas. For $175 (in 1992) they modified my stock Vanagon > antenna so that the SWR at my transmit frequency of 27.195 was nearly > 1:1. They did this by putting something on the antenna lead line, > but not otherwise altering the antenna. I notice that they are still > alive and well, with a web site and catalog at > http://www.sti-co.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Stico-Cat-2010-revised-wo-ST-PD-veh.pdf > , > apparently primarily directed toward law enforcement. In any case, > one option I see there is to NB-HF-DS antenna, which can handle 150 > watts, and which I cannot help imagine would be much more efficient > than trying to force a Vanagon antenna do the job. > > I'd like feedback from people knowledgeable about radio on this > issue. The argument that was made to me in 1992 was that it was fine > to use a Vanagon antenna to transmit CB efficiently because the > antenna only had to be tuned to operate at exactly 27.195 instead of > having it try to operate on the entire CB band range. In other words, > the argument was that by having an extremely narrow band antenna, one > could get away with using a vastly worse CB antenna and get the same > result as a quality CB antenna. Does this sound right? > > I notice that the CB antenna I just named is 36 inches tall, which as > I understand it is a compatible length for use with CBs. The best > length for FM antennas is something like 29 to 33 inches, and I > notice that my OEM antenna here extends 31 inches. So, I think that > whatever solution is arrived at, it would be best if the antenna were > 36 inches tall instead of 31, and that the operator would normally > use the antenna at 31 inches, but extend it out to 36 inches when > leaving the car and using the alarm functionality. > > Does this sound reasonable? > > Any ideas about how to go about this? > > > > _______________________________________________ > Derek Drew > Washington DC / New York > derekdrew@derekmail.com > Email is best normally but... > PHONE: 202-966-7907 (Call the number at left normally) > (alt/cell for diligent calling only): 703-408-1532


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