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Date:         Tue, 3 Jan 2012 20:12:51 -0500
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1.9l with 23psi @ 4000 rpm
Comments: To: pickle vanagon <greenvanagon@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <CA+n284MCWCWzwej4GFK1FZ488PRHn13H2wNtgF9iMPwQp7G6bw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Before panicking, the VDO oil pressure gauges are not the most accurate things in the world, especially at the lower range of the scale. There are a number of reasons that oil pressure can be low. The one we worry about most is rod bearings as these will almost always become a catastrophic failure. As for 2.1s failing more than 1.9s I think that is more of a perception as there are so many more of them combined with maybe they do go more often as they are under more stress due to the longer stroke and increased power output combined with the later vans having more power robbing accessories and Syncros etc. Careful listening should make a bad rod bearing evident. Other causes of low oil pressure include worn main bearings or more often the case. The 1.9 does wear or pound out in this area. Worn cam bearings and incorrectly adjusted lifters can also reduce oil pressure. Lifters? Yes, for those that think hydraulic lifters should be adjusted with clearance, that clearance is a leak between the pushrod and the rocker shaft.

Oil analysis will tell you if you have a bearing problem.

Maybe the oil pump is worn. This can be checked although it is some work. Do not replace with an oversized one. Will cause other problems. With the fast drop off in pressure I have to ask about the conditions inside the engine. If is gummed up and loaded with carbon inside it is possible that the pump inlet screen is getting blocked as the oil flows into it. Turn the engine of and the stuff falls off the screen and oil pressure goes back to normal for a short time next start up.

If you really plan to keep this van for the long term consider a good oil cooler set up. This will raise pressure for now and help your next engine.

As there are a number of 2.1s available from folks doing conversions consider that as the next budget upgrade course.

Dennis

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of pickle vanagon Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 2:18 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: 1.9l with 23psi @ 4000 rpm

Just to follow up on this earlier message: Faced with the fact that I have oil pressure well below "good pressure", is the only prudent thing to do to replace the engine? (There are no symptoms of problems other than the reading on the gauge.)

While I've read numerous tales of woe regarding 2.1l with low pressure failing spectacularly, I haven't really come across accounts of how the 1.9ls fail. Is it likely to strand us on the side of the road without warning, or get looser first (which would be easily seen on the pressure gauge, presumably)?

It seems it would be a shame to give up on this engine if its likely to have a year or two left on it, regardless of whether its below spec. For example, considering that the least expensive route to replacement would be to replace it with a "good used 1.9l engine removed from a running van", is it really likely that such a replacement would be in significantly better shape?

-Wes

On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:49 PM, pickle vanagon <greenvanagon@gmail.com>wrote:

> A little while ago I sent the below email to list regarding a > flickering oil light after extended highway driving on 5w50 oil. > After this email and the replies I got, I switched the oil back to > Mobil 1 15w50 oil and then we haven't driven since. I finally got > around to installing a VDO oil pressure gauge and just got back from a test drive. > > > It's funny how high the pressure starts out in the cold weather. > Easily > 3.5-4 bar. Anyways, after 20 minutes or so of driving so that the > engine has been warm for a long time, I take t up to 4000 rpms (48mph > in 3rd gear, I don't have a tach) and I get ~1.9bar, so around 28psi. > But after a minute or two of this (which is how long it takes the oil > to get up to temperature, I guess) it drops to ~1.6 bar, say 23psi, where it settles. > > So I guess this is pretty bad! (I guess I could check the accuracy > with a mechanical gauges, but I'm not holding out any hope for this > changing > things...) > > So I guess these are my questions: > How long do I have before breakdown? My understanding is that, unlike > the 2.1l, the 1.9l is unlikely to fail catastrophically, right? > Is further driving severely reducing the rebuildability of this engine? > In general, how likely is it that this engine can be rebuilt to good > tolerances? (I'm thinking right now about what I've read about the > case journals in the 1.9l engines). > I know there are high capacity oil pumps that can be installed on > these engines. Is that an effective way to buy some time? > > Thanks very much for any advice guys, this is a bummer, but I'm sure > I'll figure out a way to deal with it somehow! > > > > > > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:27 PM, pickle vanagon <greenvanagon@gmail.com>wrote: > >> On our returning-home-after-thanksgiving drive, we had some scary oil >> light flicker. >> >> Here are the details: >> >> Engine has just a little over 100k miles on it. >> I typically run Mobil 1 15w50 in it, but shortly before this drive >> changed the oil to Castrol Syntec 5w50, hoping to achieve better >> lubrication during cold-starts in the winter. I used a Mobil 1 >> filter (which I've used occasionally before, though now it was >> replacing a Fram tough-guard). >> Flicker definitely seemed related to oil pressure. That is: it only >> came on after driving fast for a long block of time, and then letting >> the engine drop to idle. After I first noticed a flicker happen once >> and confirming the oil level was fine, I tried this experiment >> several times and could often get some flickers out of it, although >> not always. Raising the engine rpms *at all* would completely kill >> the flicker. I couldn't give it even a tiny amount of gas and still have flicker, even after a long run. >> >> Further mitigating factors: >> We have an auxiliary battery setup with heavy gauge wire coupling the >> batteries via a Stancor relay. The auxiliary battery is a year old >> or so and so almost certainly in worse condition than the starter >> battery, since that never gets drained at all. I have the batteries >> set up so that a switch can be used to kill the stancor relay when >> driving (or force it to be engaged when the engine is off). Anyways, >> with the stancor relay disabled, I wouldn't get any oil light >> flicker, as the engine was idling high enough to avoid it. The >> flicker was only happening after a long fast run *and* at especially >> low rpms, which would only happen when both batteries where being powered by the alternator. >> >> >> Obviously I find this all pretty scary! I figure the first step is >> to figure out what my oil pressure is at various operating speeds and >> temperatures. So I've ordered parts to install an oil pressure gauge. >> >> I realize there's a lower threshold (blue) .25 bar switch that VW >> recommends to replace the existing .3 bar switch, which would likely >> eliminate my flicker, but right now I'm just worried this is an >> indication of deeper problems. I've ordered one of these switches >> anyways just in case my current switch is bad, but the behavior I'm >> seeing rules out a wiring issue I think, and I haven't actually heard >> of anyone having an old switch that was still responding, but just at >> too high a pressure (if anything I would expect them to fail in the >> other direction.) >> >> I also realize the switch to castrol 5w50 may have been what made the >> difference. But I'm reluctant to throw back in some 15w50, have the >> light go back off, and then just call the problem solved... I mean, I >> shouldn't really be that close to the edge of triggering the switch >> right? Or should I be considering it likely that the 5w50 really was >> just too unstable in a 1.9l (which has no oil cooler) at high speeds? >> >> >> I'll be grateful for any advice... wow, I hope this engine isn't >> giving up on us!! I was planning on getting a lot more life out of it... >> >> >> >> >


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