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Date:         Thu, 5 Jan 2012 17:38:40 -0800
Reply-To:     Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject:      Re: 1.9l with 23psi @ 4000 rpm
Comments: To: pickle vanagon <greenvanagon@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
              reply-type=original

hi. hmmmm..........I don't quite get it about adding an oil cooler to a pretty worn 1.9 wbxr engine in hopes of getting more oil pressure and life out of it. That will have some affect...but it's a patch .. a bandaid.

You always get the most bang for the buck when your old engine is 'done' ..and you find a good used engine. For example.. I bought an 87 GL with an engine fire ....everything on top of that engine is burnt to a crisp. Bought it for $ 500. Under all that mess was a rebuilt 2.1. That engine is very tight and smooth ...I probably can get 100,000 more miles out of it.

A heat exchanger type oil cooler will fit on a 1.9 if you use the 2.1 exhaust system ..which bolts right on. I run this 2.1 with 2.1 exahaust, 2.1 rear engine mount bracket, 2.1 intake runners and plenum, and 2.1 throttle body in an 85 Adventurewagon ..using 1.9 Digijet EFI, and 1.9 cooling system. I get the coolant plumbed into the oil heat exchanger by using the plastic firewall part for an auto trans, so coolant can ciruclate through the oil filter adapter heat exchanger.

On a trip in early Sept ....1,300 miles..I had just put on the 2.1 type heat exchange and put water wetter in the coolant. On the entire trip the temp needle seemed just glued in place.. never went up at all on hills....just 'stuck' right where I like it ..about 180 F. and the van went up 90 % of the hills I encountered in 4th gear ...rarely used 3rd on hills, and it returned a solid 20mpg on regular gas. and I don't even have much cash outlay into it ..can't complain.

I get the impression there are jazillion 1.9's still around. I do think the bottem ends last a long, long time. if it's worn out of course..it's worn out. If I wasn't finding a good used 2.1 .or one to rebuild.. I'd probably get a 1.9 core engine and rebuild that slowly .. I ran, btw ....a 1.9 in my 87 Wolfsburg .. it was just a quicie install, so I left the 19 exhaust and intake on ..everything else 2.1 Digifant etc... that engine ran just FINE in that Wolfsburg. No particular lack of power. That engine now, is in an very rare US model nine-passenger 84 .. a non-walkthrough body ...AC but no PS, manual trans ....it's 'santa clause' red on the bottom, white on the top .. it polishes out to near showroom condition ...zero rust, two dents. I'm putting a Z bed rear seat in it. It runs very smoothly and is for sale. Might post it on thesambe real soon. Currently seats 8 people. Starts instantly, idles smoothy , goes well. Currently about $ 3,995. Southern Oregon.

As I wrote the other day .. I don't thing high miles engines mind thicker oil much at all. and how you drive is a large factor .. some people are pretty rough on equipment. Some are not.

And of course, for any serious trip out of town ..you want an engine that's not 90 % of the way though its life..more like 60 % at the most..or even better. And they are 'just VW's' after all. Which is to say they are not like say .....an 80's era toyota that you just can not kill. Vanagons take care and understanding.

keep this one alive in the short term .. invest energy in another engine, either a good 1.9 or a good 2.1 the 1.9 is a little smoother, and less stress on the bottom end, in my opinion and experience. They are not bad engines, for a VW waterboxer. I've gotten 21 mpg with a 1.9 in an 85 Westy in the summer, fairly well loaded, and I passed trucks going down hill at 80 mph. I only go fast when it's easy .. most of the time I am driving to be the easiest on the equipment. ..but I go fast when it's easy too.

what fun this all is. Scott www.turbovans.com

----- Original Message ----- From: "pickle vanagon" <greenvanagon@GMAIL.COM> To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2012 4:54 PM Subject: Re: 1.9l with 23psi @ 4000 rpm

> Thanks for all these replies, guys. I'm feeling a bit better... > > I did order a mechanical gauge to check the VDO with and it just arrived > today, so I'll check it this weekend and report back. Maybe things are a > few PSI better than I think... I don't have high hopes though. > > But either way I'm thinking an oil cooler is a good idea. I'm a bit > confused as to how this will work in a 1.9l... it seems there's not a > enough clearance for a sandwich plate adapter underneath the filter. I > know Chris (tencentlife) on thesamba sells a kit for the 1.9l... are there > any other options I should be considering? > > I agree that I should be watching out for a 2.1l longer term. Based on > the > responses I'm getting though it seems like I can wait for a good 2.1 that > I > will be able to install in comfortable circumstances without having to > refrain from getting in some camping in the meantime, rather than rushing > to replace it as soon as possible with whatever I can afford now... > > > > On Tue, Jan 3, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Dennis Haynes > <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote: > >> Before panicking, the VDO oil pressure gauges are not the most accurate >> things in the world, especially at the lower range of the scale. >> There are a number of reasons that oil pressure can be low. The one we >> worry >> about most is rod bearings as these will almost always become a >> catastrophic >> failure. >> As for 2.1s failing more than 1.9s I think that is more of a perception >> as >> there are so many more of them combined with maybe they do go more often >> as >> they are under more stress due to the longer stroke and increased power >> output combined with the later vans having more power robbing accessories >> and Syncros etc. Careful listening should make a bad rod bearing >> evident. >> Other causes of low oil pressure include worn main bearings or more often >> the case. The 1.9 does wear or pound out in this area. Worn cam bearings >> and >> incorrectly adjusted lifters can also reduce oil pressure. Lifters? Yes, >> for those that think hydraulic lifters should be adjusted with clearance, >> that clearance is a leak between the pushrod and the rocker shaft. >> >> Oil analysis will tell you if you have a bearing problem. >> >> Maybe the oil pump is worn. This can be checked although it is some work. >> Do >> not replace with an oversized one. Will cause other problems. With the >> fast >> drop off in pressure I have to ask about the conditions inside the >> engine. >> If is gummed up and loaded with carbon inside it is possible that the >> pump >> inlet screen is getting blocked as the oil flows into it. Turn the engine >> of >> and the stuff falls off the screen and oil pressure goes back to normal >> for >> a short time next start up. >> >> If you really plan to keep this van for the long term consider a good oil >> cooler set up. This will raise pressure for now and help your next >> engine. >> >> As there are a number of 2.1s available from folks doing conversions >> consider that as the next budget upgrade course. >> >> Dennis >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf >> Of >> pickle vanagon >> Sent: Tuesday, January 03, 2012 2:18 PM >> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >> Subject: 1.9l with 23psi @ 4000 rpm >> >> Just to follow up on this earlier message: >> Faced with the fact that I have oil pressure well below "good pressure", >> is >> the only prudent thing to do to replace the engine? >> (There are no symptoms of problems other than the reading on the gauge.) >> >> While I've read numerous tales of woe regarding 2.1l with low pressure >> failing spectacularly, I haven't really come across accounts of how the >> 1.9ls fail. Is it likely to strand us on the side of the road without >> warning, or get looser first (which would be easily seen on the pressure >> gauge, presumably)? >> >> It seems it would be a shame to give up on this engine if its likely to >> have >> a year or two left on it, regardless of whether its below spec. For >> example, considering that the least expensive route to replacement would >> be >> to replace it with a "good used 1.9l engine removed from a running van", >> is >> it really likely that such a replacement would be in significantly better >> shape? >> >> -Wes >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2012 at 8:49 PM, pickle vanagon >> <greenvanagon@gmail.com>wrote: >> >> > A little while ago I sent the below email to list regarding a >> > flickering oil light after extended highway driving on 5w50 oil. >> > After this email and the replies I got, I switched the oil back to >> > Mobil 1 15w50 oil and then we haven't driven since. I finally got >> > around to installing a VDO oil pressure gauge and just got back from a >> test drive. >> > >> > >> > It's funny how high the pressure starts out in the cold weather. >> > Easily >> > 3.5-4 bar. Anyways, after 20 minutes or so of driving so that the >> > engine has been warm for a long time, I take t up to 4000 rpms (48mph >> > in 3rd gear, I don't have a tach) and I get ~1.9bar, so around 28psi. >> > But after a minute or two of this (which is how long it takes the oil >> > to get up to temperature, I guess) it drops to ~1.6 bar, say 23psi, >> > where >> it settles. >> > >> > So I guess this is pretty bad! (I guess I could check the accuracy >> > with a mechanical gauges, but I'm not holding out any hope for this >> > changing >> > things...) >> > >> > So I guess these are my questions: >> > How long do I have before breakdown? My understanding is that, unlike >> > the 2.1l, the 1.9l is unlikely to fail catastrophically, right? >> > Is further driving severely reducing the rebuildability of this engine? >> > In general, how likely is it that this engine can be rebuilt to good >> > tolerances? (I'm thinking right now about what I've read about the >> > case journals in the 1.9l engines). >> > I know there are high capacity oil pumps that can be installed on >> > these engines. Is that an effective way to buy some time? >> > >> > Thanks very much for any advice guys, this is a bummer, but I'm sure >> > I'll figure out a way to deal with it somehow! >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > On Sun, Nov 27, 2011 at 10:27 PM, pickle vanagon >> <greenvanagon@gmail.com>wrote: >> > >> >> On our returning-home-after-thanksgiving drive, we had some scary oil >> >> light flicker. >> >> >> >> Here are the details: >> >> >> >> Engine has just a little over 100k miles on it. >> >> I typically run Mobil 1 15w50 in it, but shortly before this drive >> >> changed the oil to Castrol Syntec 5w50, hoping to achieve better >> >> lubrication during cold-starts in the winter. I used a Mobil 1 >> >> filter (which I've used occasionally before, though now it was >> >> replacing a Fram tough-guard). >> >> Flicker definitely seemed related to oil pressure. That is: it only >> >> came on after driving fast for a long block of time, and then letting >> >> the engine drop to idle. After I first noticed a flicker happen once >> >> and confirming the oil level was fine, I tried this experiment >> >> several times and could often get some flickers out of it, although >> >> not always. Raising the engine rpms *at all* would completely kill >> >> the flicker. I couldn't give it even a tiny amount of gas and still >> have >> flicker, even after a long run. >> >> >> >> Further mitigating factors: >> >> We have an auxiliary battery setup with heavy gauge wire coupling the >> >> batteries via a Stancor relay. The auxiliary battery is a year old >> >> or so and so almost certainly in worse condition than the starter >> >> battery, since that never gets drained at all. I have the batteries >> >> set up so that a switch can be used to kill the stancor relay when >> >> driving (or force it to be engaged when the engine is off). Anyways, >> >> with the stancor relay disabled, I wouldn't get any oil light >> >> flicker, as the engine was idling high enough to avoid it. The >> >> flicker was only happening after a long fast run *and* at especially >> >> low rpms, which would only happen when both batteries where being >> powered >> by the alternator. >> >> >> >> >> >> Obviously I find this all pretty scary! I figure the first step is >> >> to figure out what my oil pressure is at various operating speeds and >> >> temperatures. So I've ordered parts to install an oil pressure gauge. >> >> >> >> I realize there's a lower threshold (blue) .25 bar switch that VW >> >> recommends to replace the existing .3 bar switch, which would likely >> >> eliminate my flicker, but right now I'm just worried this is an >> >> indication of deeper problems. I've ordered one of these switches >> >> anyways just in case my current switch is bad, but the behavior I'm >> >> seeing rules out a wiring issue I think, and I haven't actually heard >> >> of anyone having an old switch that was still responding, but just at >> >> too high a pressure (if anything I would expect them to fail in the >> >> other direction.) >> >> >> >> I also realize the switch to castrol 5w50 may have been what made the >> >> difference. But I'm reluctant to throw back in some 15w50, have the >> >> light go back off, and then just call the problem solved... I mean, I >> >> shouldn't really be that close to the edge of triggering the switch >> >> right? Or should I be considering it likely that the 5w50 really was >> >> just too unstable in a 1.9l (which has no oil cooler) at high speeds? >> >> >> >> >> >> I'll be grateful for any advice... wow, I hope this engine isn't >> >> giving up on us!! I was planning on getting a lot more life out of >> it... >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >>


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