Date: Mon, 9 Jan 2012 14:15:42 -0800
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Smoke after head replacement
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hi,
re
a piece of cardboard behind the exhaust and let the
mist collect into droplets, it's coolant.
that's not a good sign of course.
I have always been concerned about snagging a green o-ring putting the head
on.
What I do is lube the sealing area in the side of the combustion chamber
with Vaseline..
the heads always slide down over the o-ring nicely for me doing it that way.
if you have no compression in one cylinder...a compression guage is good
enough to find it.
a leak down tester wil tell you if it's leaking past rings, out an exh
valve, or an intake..
if it's lack of sealing for coolant..
it might bubble the coolant bottle...but sometimes that shows up in a
simple compression test too.
the comression could be a push rod/rocker arm issue as suggested.
there is a trick to getting the pushrods properly seated.
You have two separate things going on..
push rod problem causing no compression at a valve..
and this coolant in the exhaust thing.
it's easy to pull the vavle cover and check the pushrods.
You sure should be using a Remote Starter Switch to turn the engine over
while watching.
My remote starter switch is one of my most important tools. Couldn't fix
vanagons without it.
Can't imagine too well what 'overflow adapter' is.
if it's a 2.1 ..
there are 'air bleed' hoses and fittings on it several places.
in any case..
no bolt should be going into any exahust paasage, or bolt hole. Better check
that out real carefully..
there can not be ANY passages from exhaust to coolent.
The heads always bolt down 'tilted' since the push rod tubes need to be
compressed., and they're holding the lower side up.
I call that the Air Bleed Rail...around the top of the engine compartment in
a 2.1.
The SURE wanted to make sure air got out of the engine ..there's quite few
hoses going to it.
It's a good system.
Scott
www.turbovans.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gregg Carlen" <gregg.carlen@GMAIL.COM>
To: <vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM>
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 7:52 AM
Subject: Re: Smoke after head replacement
> Yes, Dennis, I agree. Seems like a cylinder isn't firing. Going to
> re-check
> obvious things as soon as I have a chance (plug wires, etc).
>
> I don't have a leak-down tester, so will have to get one ASAP (what's the
> advantage of a 2-guage vs single guage leak-down tester?). However, I
> really suspect I've messed something up during installation of the
> head because I think there is definately a coolant leak getting through to
> the exhaust. I drained 1.5 gallons of coolant when I pulled the head and
> I've returned a little more than 2 gallons now and it still wants more. I
> also noticed if I put a piece of cardboard behind the exhaust and let the
> mist collect into droplets, it's coolant.
>
> The only things that come to mind that would cause a significant coolant
> leak like this is one of the green o-rings came out of place during head
> installation, or perhaps the head didn't seat correctly against the
> cylinders. Or, one of the metal cylcinder gaskets (between the head and
> top
> of the cylinders) slipped out of place during installation (and I crushed
> it a wierd way during head installation).
>
> If I had a valve that was open all the time or more than it is supposed
> to,
> I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with allowing coolant
> through the combusion chamber, right? Althought that might account for a
> cylinder not firing/exhausting at the right time..
>
> A few things I did that I second-guess in hind-sight:
> Installed the green o-rings without any kind of lubricant
> When I inspected the head after cleaning, I noticed the over-flow port
> (where the small-diameter coolant hose goes between the overflow rail to
> the adapter plate on the front end of the head) had one screw hole that
> was
> very deep and had an opening in the bottom into what I think is the
> exhaust
> chamber. I would if this leaked coolant or exhaust, I think it would be
> allowing exhaust to escape to the outside of the engine since the bolt
> hole
> is in the flange of the overflow adapter.
> When I first put the head on by hand, I could only get it up to about 1"
> to
> the engine case/gasket. From there, I tightened the head bolts in proper
> sequence until tight. It seemed like the bottom of the head mated with the
> engine case/gasket before the top of the head did (bottom of head made
> contact with top of head still having about 1/4 gap). Perhaps I
> incorrectly
> installed the head???
>
> I just wanted to share these observations at this point. Next step is to
> get a leak-down tester to learn more about what is truly occuring, but
> until I verify I have all 4 cylinders firing, I don't want to drive or run
> it more just yet.
>
> Any guidance appreciated.
>
> -Gregg
>
> On Sun, Jan 8, 2012 at 9:07 PM, Dennis Haynes
> <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>wrote:
>
>> For starters that engine is running really bad. Find which cylinder is
>> not
>> firing. You may have a push rod that is not seated properly in the lifter
>> keeping a valve open. That will also keep some unburned fuel going into
>> the
>> exhaust.
>>
>> Shortly after a major engine repair a compression/leak down test should
>> be
>> performed again to confirm the success of the repairs. Check to make sure
>> that coolant is not now getting into the cylinders. This will quickly
>> damage the cylinders and pistons. Coolant in the oil will also damage the
>> bearings.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>> Of
>> Gregg Carlen
>> Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2012 2:16 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: Smoke after head replacement
>>
>> Hi folks,
>>
>> Similar to Todd Last's collapsed lifter that he shared a video about,
>> I've
>> got a similar situation on my 91 Westy. Oh yeah, I'm in Oakton, VA.
>>
>> I had the classic water gasket leaking coolant. I removed the passenger
>> side
>> head with engine in the van, cleaned it up, checked it for leaking using
>> Scott's recommendation to check the valve guides using gas (I used parts
>> cleaner instead of gas with no signs of leaking along the valve
>> guides) and reinstalled. Did the fuel lines while I was on that side of
>> the
>> van as well. New gromets, gaskets, etc all the way around, nothing rubber
>> reused. (I repalced the green o-rings on the cylinders, but no the black
>> one's back inside the engine since I didn't remove the cylinder sleeves).
>> So, all back together, she fires right up on the first try. Usual
>> bleeding
>> of the coolant, etc.
>>
>> Now, as I expected, there should be some smoke as oil/coolant that may
>> have
>> gottent to places it shouldn't have. There was. A lot of it. I thought at
>> first it might be a collapsed lifter (one was squishy when I put the push
>> rods back in). However, I don't have the knocking sound that Todd had in
>> his
>> video, just lots of smoke.
>>
>> I've run it about 10 minutes total and still no change. I'm wondering if
>> I've managed to mess something up and actually have coolant getting into
>> the
>> combusion process.
>>
>> Any advice as to what to check first? Or, just need to run it more? I did
>> NOT adjust the valves, just replaced the assemble as I had taken it off.
>> Perhaps I need to go through the valve adjustment process? (Although I
>> don't
>> here anything abnormal from that area).
>>
>> A short video is here:
>>
>> https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/sredir?uname=113741720077010029753&target=AL
>> BUM&id=5695338093044400273&authkey=Gv1sRgCIeJqISt-qiL5gE&feat=email
>>
>>
>> Gregg
>> Blueberry - 91 Westy (2.1L stock)
>> Oakton, VA
>>
>>
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