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Date:         Mon, 9 Jan 2012 20:56:46 -0500
Reply-To:     David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         David Beierl <dbeierl@ATTGLOBAL.NET>
Subject:      Re: New Propane tank fill valve/fitting
Comments: To: Edward Maglott <emaglott3@GMAIL.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <4f0b8cb8.89bde00a.664e.ffffa38c@mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 07:56 PM 1/9/2012, Edward Maglott wrote: >I have 2 goals in mind with this modification. One is to have a more >common fitting on the tank so that I can get it filled more >easily. I've run out of propane on the road and had to visit more >than one place to find one that had the adapter that fit the fitting >on the van. I think any place that can fill a BBQ tank or an RV >should be good to fill this 1 3/4" ACME fitting. The other is that

Erm...what you already have on there is a 1 3/4" Acme valve, unless someone has been seriously messing with things. It's *not* the same as what's on a 20 lb BBQ tank. That's Acme but much smaller diameter. I initially thought that the valve you pointed to was of this smaller size (one-inch?) which is why I responded as I did. If you have the OEM valve still present, it has an automatic stop facility which makes it more complicated and expensive - the tank fitting that acts as a level gauge (by passing liquid instead of vapor when the tank is filled to 80% of its "water capacity") is plumbed into the side of this valve which detects the passage of liquid and closes against the incoming fill.

The valve you're looking at doesn't have this complication and requires the operator to observe when liquid starts coming from the opened gauge valve and stop filling at that point. If he doesn't stop immediately you then have to continue bleeding off the liquid until you get back down to vapor coming from the valve.

New ASME tanks (the kind we have, stands for the American Society of Mechanical Engineers) have a float-type shutoff similar to the ones now required in DOT (Department of Transportation, BBQ-type) tanks. Unlike the DOT tanks however there is no requirement to retrofit such valves to existing ASME tanks, nor is there any requirement for periodic testing/recertification of ASME tanks which are constructed much more heavily than DOT tanks. If you bought a new tank from Manchester Tank it would come with the float-type shutoff.

But regardless, all these tanks (manual shutoff, liquid-flow shutoff, float-type shutoff) are filled from the same hose, or the same adapter if it's an outfit that primarily fills DOT tanks.

If you *were* to put a BBQ-tank valve onto one of our tanks you would have to remove the Overfilling Protection Device (float-type shutoff) from the valve, and would be in at least a questionable area regarding whether the tank would still be considered certified as an ASME tank. In practice I think you would have difficulty finding people willing to fill it for you, though that is a guess. And you'd still have to install and use the manual gauge valve. If you *did* find people willing to fill the tank I think there would be an increased risk that the operator would fail to open the gauge valve, since they're spring-loaded by now to expect the BBQ tanks to shut themselves off without any operator intervention.

Purely by the way - the Acme designation no doubt comes because the external thread used to couple the fill hose onto the valve has the "Acme" thread form which is commonly used for leadscrews on lathes and similar machinery and other power-transmission uses. It's a modification - stronger and easier to machine - of the square thread form.

Yours, David


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