Date: Sat, 21 Jan 2012 23:05:02 -0600
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: Was Ford Galaxy Friday, now Technology Comparison
In-Reply-To: <0bc601ccd8be$0f513d70$2df3b850$@net>
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---- Tom Hargrave <thargrav@hiwaay.net> wrote:
> Hybrid technology is just a add-in to the primary technology used to drive the vehicle. But it's a good add-in for city driving because the technology stores then re-applies energy lost during breaking.
>
> For the same reason hybrid technology will cost you fuel on the interstate. You have very little breaking energy to recover and you are spending extra energy hauling all the extra stuff around.
>
> Look at any hybrid on the market today and you'll see that the highway mileage is lower than a comparable gasoline only model.
Not so. There is no Prius without a hybrid system. However, the nearest equivalent may be a Corolla. That car is smaller and lighter. The EPA highway mileage for a Corolla is, if I remember correctly, 37 mpg. I used to regularly exceed that by a couple mpg in my Corolla. While it is true that the Prius gets fewer mpg on the highway than it does in town (when driven for long enough drives to adequately warm it up in town), it still beats the Corolla by 10 to 15 mpg. I know from driving both. Mine, driven by me, gets between 48 and 57 mpg in highway driving. It gets between 45 and 65 mpg in town driving. The lower figures for town driving are when it is driven mainly for short distance drives, and the hybrid system is not adequately warmed up.
The claim that a hybrid gets fewer mpg on the highway than a non-hybrid equivalent may come from the Honda Civic. That vehicle is not a "full" hybrid.
Even when driven on an interstate highway, the hybrid system does provide some benefit. The vehicle stores energy not only when braking, but when running downhill and "coasting." On my drive from west Texas to Edmond, OK last week (540 miles), I achieved 56.5 mpg, driving mostly at 65 mph.
mcneely
>
> Diesel gets better mileage than comparable gasoline models for two reasons. The fuel is partly why because diesel produces more BTUs per gallon but the higher compression diesel engine is also more thermally efficient than a comparable gasoline engine.
>
> Hydrogen is not a viable fuel because it's just a transition fuel - it has to be made of something else. If it's source is water then you just draw a dotted line over to the nearest coal fired plant or nuclear facility because that's the real fuel source. And if the source is natural gas then you might as well shortcut the process and burn natural gas because you have to add even more energy to make hydrogen from natural gas!
>
> Thanks, Tom Hargrave
> www.stir-plate.com
> www.towercooler.com
> www.kegkits.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
> Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 10:11 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: Ford Galaxy Friday
>
> ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > I think there are a number of forces preventing Diesels from being popular here. Things are getting worse as the price of Diesel is often more than gasoline and that trend will get even worse with the increasing requirements to clean the fuel up. Being in the Northeast I would hate to have to heat my house with fuel oil. My son just bought a new Jetta and try as may I was not able to convince him to go TDI. The upcharge and his desire for speed had him choose the GLI. From experience with motorhome if I get another one it will probably be gas. The increased maintenance costs of the Diesel have been painful. A major problem in the US with auto Diesels in the increased emissions. From 2004 to 2007 new ones were illegal here in NY due to the emissions. So why would manufacturers develop a vehicle that may not even be allowed? As hybrid technology goes down in cost I think that will be >the major player in the fuel economy war.
>
> I agree that hybrids will be the way to go. I drive one because of the fuel savings and cleanliness. But, diesel fuel can be cleaned so that it is quite good. Considering the difference in fuel use of these small diesel engines versus gasoline, how do the emissions actually compare? I have never understood why tailpipe emission is measured as it is, pollution as a fraction of the exhaust gas, anyway. That means that spewing mega quantities of pollutant is ok so long as the engine is big enough. If your vehicle is spewing out 0.2 units per liter, while mine is issuing 0.1 units per liter, but yours puts out 1 liter for every 3 of mine, then yours is cleaner, despite the greater fractional contribution. If measured on the basis of pollutants per mile driven, rather than as a fraction of exhaust gas, then we might get somewhere.
>
> mcneely
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely
> > Sent: Friday, January 20, 2012 5:02 PM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: Ford Galaxy Friday
> >
> > take a look here at the mpg figures. Why, why, why can't we get some sense here in the U.S.? mcneely
> >
> > http://greenautochoice.com/cmp/minivan-cmp-chrys-01.htm
> >
> > ---- "fonman4277@comcast.net" <fonman4277@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> > > Folks, I am sitting in traffic behind a Ford Galaxy minivan. I've never seen anything like it, and it has a TDI badge on the back. not a model I've ever seen before here in the united states, it has virginia tags, not diplomatic plates. It does not appear to be brand new, as it has the typical parking lot door dings on the sides.
> >
> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless Phone
> >
> > --
> > David McNeely
>
> --
> David McNeely
> -----
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--
David McNeely
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