Date:         Sun, 22 Jan 2012 15:59:55 -0800
Reply-To:     Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Steven Johnson <sjohnso2000@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Was Ford Galaxy Friday, now Technology Comparison
In-Reply-To:  <20120122175626.0X6RH.159126.imail@eastrmwml105>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

As this thread drifts further and further to off-topic land I have to agree
with David on this.
There is just too much misinformation about the Prius Hybrid versus regular
gas cars as there
is about vanagons and reliability.   Remember the blast Toyota got about
their claimed MPG versus
what drivers were getting?    Toyota bowed to pressure and they had to
re-do the analysis on their
cars and their cars only....   Did they do this with any other vehicle?
No...   So how can you get any
kind of comparison that is fair.   Well you can't.   Just like you
absolutely cannot get any comparison
from car to another kind of car without driving the exact same route under
the exact same conditions.
I've argued with people about how they are saying that their gas only
economy car gets just as good
a mileage as the Prius.   To that I say "BS".   There is no comparison.
How can they possibly make
that statement without driving the same route with a Prius?

Steven
91 Westy



On Sun, Jan 22, 2012 at 2:56 PM, Dave Mcneely <mcneely@cox.net> wrote:

> ---- Mike Riley <mkriley@FUSE.NET> wrote:
> > I agree with tom, the reason there is  no comparable gas model  to the
>  prius  is that it  would show  that the  improvements are mostly in the
>  aerodynamics,   "SPECIAL  TIRES" and weight control,
> > but where is the profit in that?  There was a conscious decision by
> toyota to not offer  a  gas only version as people would opt for that when
>  seeing the  cost of the hybrid vs the gas.
> > The  prius without the gadgetry is jus a geo  metro clone.
>
> A geo metro clone?  Have you physically compared the two vehicles?  the
> metro had a 3 cylinder engine.  It weighed far less than the prius -- less
> than a corolla.  It came with a five speed manual transmission.   It had
> almost no interior space, while the prius is classified (barely) as a
> mid-size.  the geo metro engine was generally good for about 100K miles,
> while Toyota engines are known for longevity.  The prius is quite a nice
> vehicle.  The metro ...... .
>
> Good grief!
>
> The prius does not come with special tires.  Mine came with Goodyear
> Integrity, which is not a low rolling resistance tire.  I have since put on
> low rolling resistence tires (Continental Eco Plus), but that has not made
> much difference in the mpg.
>
> I will say that some (but not all) of the mpg improvement in the prius
> over its nearest comparables is due to driver behavior.  There is nothing
> like an on board readout that is constantly telling one what the current
> mpg are to get the driver to learn how to keep that down.  And some drivers
> do not get as good a mileage with the prius as others do.  The same is true
> with other vehicles.  But to say that there is nothing to the hybrid
> technology that gets the mpg up is nonsense.  When the gasoline engine is
> not running, it is not burning gasoline.  when it is running, it is getting
> similar mpg to other vehicles in its weight and power class.  Toyota will
> tell you that, as will independent analysts.
>
>
> http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1071391_life-after-death-what-happens-when-your-prius-battery-dies
>
> Those drivers who are disappointed in the prius's mpg generally drive
> short drives that do not warm up the inverter, or they drive with their
> foot in the accelerator, which prevents the vehicle from realizing its
> potential.
>
> mcneely
>