Hey Dennis, The Emico is better than most, but it definitely won't pass the EPA lab test. This cat discussion all depends on point of view. The gist of this thread seemed to be "replace your cat because it's better for the environment". If that's the argument, than you should put on the best, cleanest running cat available. If the topic is "replace your cat to pass your local smog test"... than most of the budget cats will probably work just fine. Unfortunately, the EPA lab test is nothing like your local smog test. They begin measuring emissions from a cold start and simulate many different driving conditions. The complete test takes 3 days to complete and costs $3,000. From my experience (and the recommendation of the lab), only the OE cats are of sufficient quality to pass this test. Cheers, Jeff
-----Original Message----- From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:00 AM To: 'Jeff'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: RE: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it??? Have you tried the Emico Cats? http://www.emico-catalytic.com/appchart/searchresults.php The 13581 claims to be EPA, Europe, and CARB approved for the Vanagon. I have had great results so with these. One of the problems with Cats is that there is usually some other reason for them to fail that never gets corrected. Then most of the aftermarket ones have less material either in length of the core or diameter. So with the problem that caused the original failure the replacement fails real fast. Dennis -----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:13 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it??? Well. sit right back and I'll tell you a little story. Perhaps my "ABSURD" feeling, as you like to call it, comes from a little bit (perhaps a lot) more experience than yours? I happen to be a Registered Importer and part of my job is to make imported vehicles legal for the USA. Your "$100 Cat" will not pass any of the EPA lab tests even when new. The $200 cats will not pass the EPA lab tests when new. Only the OE $500 cat will pass the EPA lab test. The most glaring failure of the "non-ABSURD" cats is that they do not come up to operating temperature quickly enough to be effective for short drives. Other problems have to do with comparison testing and how quickly they lose their effectiveness.
Now let's just forget about the whole fancy EPA lab testing stuff and concentrate on everyday experience with plenty of customer's cars here in California. I can't keep track of the number of 2 year old "$100 Cats" that failed their 2nd smog test. It sort of became a running joke in CA Vanagon land about replacing your cat every two years to pass smog. Lots of people bitched and moaned when CA put in their new cat replacement laws a few years back, but it sure got rid of the 2 year cat syndrome.
So. I'm sorry if the facts seems "ABSURD" to you, but in reality, you do get what you pay for when it comes to a catalytic converter.
Happy smogging.
Jeff
From: OlRivrRat [mailto:OlRivrRat@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:56 PM To: Jeff Schwaia Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
Jeff
My "$100 Cat" (which actually only cost me $87.95 back in '07) is 5yrs old & has 62000mis on it
( 2yrs8mos/26Kmis+H2OBxr & 2yrs4mos/36Kmis+EJ25 ) & according to a recent smog test & my EJ25
ECU, it is doing a darn fine job. So it would seem to me that an "ABSURD" might be in order in regards
to feelings about your need to spend $500 on a OE Cat. Here again is the link to the one I use & highly
recommend.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-22918/
ORR ~ DeanB
On 19 Mar , 2012, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Schwaia wrote:
A $100 cat is effective for less than 2 years and is nowhere near as efficient as an OE cat. If you really want to do it right, buy a cat that meets OE specs... about $500. Cheers, Jeff
-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of den jolliffe Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 5:46 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it??? Aren't we talking about a $100 part that helps emissions and the air we all breath. Say it lasts as long as the original or less (20 years)...that's $5 a year...less than a pack of smokes or a gallon of gas A YEAR. It's a no brainer for me...NAPA has them. Dennis2
________________________________ From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:38:50 PM Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
David, that is true. Some folks try to do something about, others rail that it is too much to bear to clean up the act.
It is true that transportation is the single largest polluter, however, and the only way to control that is to make sure that each vehicle complies with standard.
We all pay, but then we all should.
mcneely
---- David M <covrambles@YAHOO.COM> wrote: Meanwhile US industry pumps out millions of tons of pollutants every year while us poor suckers pay over $1000 to get thru the emissions test (happened to me twice).
If you look at the statistics you will be shocked at what goes into the air every year.
-David, 1987 Wolfsburg
--- On Sun, 3/18/12, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it??? To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Date: Sunday, March 18, 2012, 6:14 PM
Luckily for many the federal government relies on the states for enforcement. However the general requirements start at the federal level (EPA),especially for the design, maintenance, and operation of motor vehicles. Disabling or removing parts of the emission control system are federal violations. Engine upgrades are also regulated with the major requirements being that the replacement be same year or later and all of the emissions equipment that goes with that engine goes with it. This can include all the controls, exhaust after treatment, and fuel tank vapor recovery systems and maybe even the transmission/drivelien. All the state emissions programs require that all the original equipment is there. Keep in mind that depending on use, (load, time under load, accelerating curves, etc.), a more efficient engine may not mean a cleaner engine. Some states actually operate these programs as private shops can both look the other way or take advantage and abuse customers. As for just relying on tailpipe tests, they are just too limited in scope and function. They can only look at percentages or parts per million (ppm), not actual pollutants per mile especially under different conditions. Again they are designed to identify "gross" polluters, not certify your vehicle works perfectly.
Dennis
-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 3:27 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
what does that mean 'move issue up to the Fed level ' ? there are no Fed smog stations. I'm sure there is conflict between state's rights to set there own emissions requirements and what the Feds want.
I think it's interesting that where smog is not an issue locally .. say where ocean air blows emissions inland .. ( not talking about Ca. ) there can be no local smog checks at all, yet the cars are still emitting, it's just blowing somewhere else.
fortunately for many of us smogs checks are not required. I would be in favor of basic tail pipe checks..
and an example of how silly the whole thing is .. in Ca ... officially, they will not allow people to put newer more fuel efficient, less polluting engines into their older vans. Pretty stupid. They could/should PAY people for putting in a late model less polluting and more fuel efficient engine into our old beaties. But then anyway ...'logical/practical' and 'government' have never been known to coincide. Durn shame.
On 3/18/2012 9:36 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote: It will run just fine with the guts removed. There may be a very slight performance penalty as the gasses bounce around in the hollow cat. Not having a local emissions testing/enforcement program just moves the issue up to the federal level.
Dennis
-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of marc rose Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:54 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
I went to change out my worn out and rusted muffler on my 90 Carat "Rosie"
yesterday and noticed that the converter was all busted up and the ceramic is all but gone. I live in an area that has no enforced emission tests or anything like that. My question is can i can safely run without the convertor. I was going to just bust out the rest of the ceramic and reinstall but was not sure how it would affect the overall operation of the engine.
Any thoughts??
Thanks
Marc
-- David McNeely |
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