Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2012 09:18:42 -0700
Reply-To: Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Jeff <vw.doka@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds17BFD291F4923585211E41A0430@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Hey Dennis,
The Emico is better than most, but it definitely won't pass the EPA lab
test.
This cat discussion all depends on point of view. The gist of this thread
seemed to be "replace your cat because it's better for the environment". If
that's the argument, than you should put on the best, cleanest running cat
available.
If the topic is "replace your cat to pass your local smog test"... than most
of the budget cats will probably work just fine.
Unfortunately, the EPA lab test is nothing like your local smog test. They
begin measuring emissions from a cold start and simulate many different
driving conditions. The complete test takes 3 days to complete and costs
$3,000. From my experience (and the recommendation of the lab), only the OE
cats are of sufficient quality to pass this test.
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Haynes [mailto:d23haynes57@hotmail.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:00 AM
To: 'Jeff'; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: RE: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
Have you tried the Emico Cats?
http://www.emico-catalytic.com/appchart/searchresults.php
The 13581 claims to be EPA, Europe, and CARB approved for the Vanagon. I
have had great results so with these.
One of the problems with Cats is that there is usually some other reason for
them to fail that never gets corrected. Then most of the aftermarket ones
have less material either in length of the core or diameter. So with the
problem that caused the original failure the replacement fails real fast.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Jeff
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 3:13 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
Well. sit right back and I'll tell you a little story. Perhaps my "ABSURD"
feeling, as you like to call it, comes from a little bit (perhaps a lot)
more experience than yours? I happen to be a Registered Importer and part
of my job is to make imported vehicles legal for the USA. Your "$100 Cat"
will not pass any of the EPA lab tests even when new. The $200 cats will
not pass the EPA lab tests when new. Only the OE $500 cat will pass the EPA
lab test. The most glaring failure of the "non-ABSURD" cats is that they do
not come up to operating temperature quickly enough to be effective for
short drives. Other problems have to do with comparison testing and how
quickly they lose their effectiveness.
Now let's just forget about the whole fancy EPA lab testing stuff and
concentrate on everyday experience with plenty of customer's cars here in
California. I can't keep track of the number of 2 year old "$100 Cats" that
failed their 2nd smog test. It sort of became a running joke in CA Vanagon
land about replacing your cat every two years to pass smog. Lots of people
bitched and moaned when CA put in their new cat replacement laws a few years
back, but it sure got rid of the 2 year cat syndrome.
So. I'm sorry if the facts seems "ABSURD" to you, but in reality, you do get
what you pay for when it comes to a catalytic converter.
Happy smogging.
Jeff
From: OlRivrRat [mailto:OlRivrRat@comcast.net]
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 7:56 PM
To: Jeff Schwaia
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
Jeff
My "$100 Cat" (which actually only cost me $87.95 back in '07)
is 5yrs old & has 62000mis on it
( 2yrs8mos/26Kmis+H2OBxr & 2yrs4mos/36Kmis+EJ25 ) & according to a recent
smog test & my EJ25
ECU, it is doing a darn fine job. So it would seem to me that an "ABSURD"
might be in order in regards
to feelings about your need to spend $500 on a OE Cat. Here again is the
link to the one I use & highly
recommend.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MPE-22918/
ORR ~ DeanB
On 19 Mar , 2012, at 7:14 PM, Jeff Schwaia wrote:
A $100 cat is effective for less than 2 years and is nowhere near as
efficient as an OE cat.
If you really want to do it right, buy a cat that meets OE specs... about
$500.
Cheers,
Jeff
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
den jolliffe
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 5:46 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
Aren't we talking about a $100 part that helps emissions and the air we all
breath. Say it lasts as long as the original or less (20 years)...that's $5
a year...less than a pack of smokes or a gallon of gas A YEAR.
It's a no brainer for me...NAPA has them.
Dennis2
________________________________
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 6:38:50 PM
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
David, that is true. Some folks try to do something about, others rail
that it is too much to bear to clean up the act.
It is true that transportation is the single largest polluter, however, and
the only way to control that is to make sure that each vehicle complies with
standard.
We all pay, but then we all should.
mcneely
---- David M <covrambles@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
Meanwhile US industry pumps out millions of tons of pollutants every year
while us poor suckers pay over $1000 to get thru the emissions test
(happened to me twice).
If you look at the statistics you will be shocked at what goes into the
air every year.
-David, 1987 Wolfsburg
--- On Sun, 3/18/12, Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Date: Sunday, March 18, 2012, 6:14 PM
Luckily for many the federal government relies on the states for
enforcement. However the general requirements start at the federal
level (EPA),especially for the design, maintenance, and operation of
motor vehicles. Disabling or removing parts of the emission control
system are federal violations. Engine upgrades are also regulated
with the major requirements being that the replacement be same year
or later and all of the emissions equipment that goes with that
engine goes with it. This can include all the controls, exhaust after
treatment, and fuel tank vapor recovery systems and maybe even the
transmission/drivelien. All the state emissions programs require that
all the original equipment is there. Keep in mind that depending on
use, (load, time under load, accelerating curves, etc.), a more
efficient engine may not mean a cleaner engine. Some states actually
operate these programs as private shops can both look the other way
or take advantage and abuse customers. As for just relying on
tailpipe tests, they are just too limited in scope and function. They
can only look at percentages or parts per million (ppm), not actual
pollutants per mile especially under different conditions. Again they are
designed to identify "gross" polluters, not certify your vehicle works
perfectly.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 3:27 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
what does that mean 'move issue up to the Fed level ' ?
there are no Fed smog stations.
I'm sure there is conflict between state's rights to set there own
emissions requirements and what the Feds want.
I think it's interesting that where smog is not an issue locally ..
say where ocean air blows emissions inland ..
( not talking about Ca. )
there can be no local smog checks at all, yet the cars are still
emitting, it's just blowing somewhere else.
fortunately for many of us smogs checks are not required.
I would be in favor of basic tail pipe checks..
and an example of how silly the whole thing is ..
in Ca ...
officially, they will not allow people to put newer more fuel
efficient, less polluting engines into their older vans.
Pretty stupid.
They could/should PAY people for putting in a late model less
polluting and more fuel efficient engine into our old beaties.
But then anyway ...'logical/practical' and 'government' have never
been known to coincide. Durn shame.
On 3/18/2012 9:36 AM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
It will run just fine with the guts removed. There may be a very
slight performance penalty as the gasses bounce around in the
hollow cat. Not having a local emissions testing/enforcement
program just moves the issue up to the federal level.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
Behalf Of marc rose
Sent: Sunday, March 18, 2012 11:54 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Catalytic Converter???? Anyone go without it???
I went to change out my worn out and rusted muffler on my 90 Carat
"Rosie"
yesterday and noticed that the converter was all busted up and the
ceramic is all but gone. I live in an area that has no enforced
emission tests or anything like that. My question is can i can
safely run without the convertor. I was going to just bust out the
rest of the ceramic and reinstall but was not sure how it would
affect the overall operation of the engine.
Any thoughts??
Thanks
Marc
--
David McNeely
