Date:         Thu, 12 Apr 2012 23:33:50 -0700
Reply-To:     Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Friday flammables-Flammables vs. combustibles.
In-Reply-To:  <BAY152-ds1979ABA0F2ACACE0C52D1EA03B0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good grief folks, we have nothing in front of us but some sheet metal.  If
we hit something going fast enough with a flammable gas in the A/C condenser
right up front (weird idea, IMHO), along with gasoline and propane under us,
it will simply result in cremation after our inevitable instantaneous death.
So what?  Who doesn't want to be buried in their Westy???

When I sold my EVC I gave up the modern insurance company mandated
engine-in-front energy absorbing crush zone, ABS, air bags, traction
control,  etc. (and power) to get a primitive, under powered '85 Westy with
nothing more than seat belts to keep you from going through the windshield
and head restraints to keep your neck from breaking. Those were the first
safety improvements introduced in 1968, after the padded dash.  I use the
seat belts, so it's safe enough for me.  But there are a lot of distracted
drivers today, so I drive even more defensively than I used to.  I once
expected that the other driver would be paying attention and see me, but not
anymore. So, I'm putting in a really loud horn from an Alfa Romeo.  But I
might upgrade:
http://www.assuredautomotiveproducts.com/VIAIR-20005-Kit-and-PAIR-of-BIG-Rig
-Trumpet-Truck-Air-Horns-ACHRSK-650x2-VIAIR20005.htm   Watch the video.  I
have a Scion xB like this one, and I've often wanted this capability.  Any
ideas on where to put the compressor?

I just hope my luck will hold for another 20 years like it did with my '84
Westy.  Oh wait, it's been 30 years counting my '68 Westy!

When your number is up, it's up. Just enjoy the ride until then!

Stuart
Older but not dead yet in Seattle

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Haynes
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 6:09 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Friday flammables-Flammables vs. combustibles.

Definition and classification of flammable and combustible liquids are
addressed in Section 1.7 of NFPA 30. A flammable liquid is defined as a
liquid whose flash point does not exceed 100°F, when tested by closed-cup
test methods, while a combustible liquid is one whose flash point is 100°F
or higher, also when tested by closed-cup methods. These broad groups are
further classified as follows: 
Class IA - Flash Point less than 73°F; Boiling Point less than 100°F Class
IB - Flash Point less than 73°F; Boiling Point equal to or greater than
100°F Class IC - Flash Point equal to or greater than 73°F, but less than
100°F Class II - Flash Point equal to or greater than 100°F, but less than
140°F Class IIIA - Flash Point equal to or greater than 140°F, but less than
200°F

Class IIIB - Flash Point equal to or greater than 200°F 
 

Notice that boiling point is only used to distinguish between ClassIA and
Class IB. Class IA liquids are extremely volatile, but there are few liquids
that are so classed. Note also that, theoretically, there is no upper limit
to Class IIIB.

These definitions and classifications were agreed to years ago by NFPA, the
U. S. Department of Transportation (DOT), and the U. S. Occupational Safety
and Health Administration (OSHA) in an attempt to remove inconsistencies in
the definitions used at the time. Since then, DOT has changed its definition
of "flammable liquid" by raising the upper limit to 141°F (60.5°C). This was
done because the United States is a partner to a world-wide set of hazardous
materials regulations sponsored by the United Nations and must use the UN
definitions, at least for international transportation. Note, however, that
DOT regulations include a so-called "domestic exemption" that allows a
shipper to redesignate as a combustible liquid any liquid whose flash point
is in the NFPA Class II range and which does not meet any other hazardous
material definition.

-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Rob
Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2012 2:24 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Friday flammables

The other day on the list we were talking about the contents of an air
conditioning system, a propane/isobutane mix was mentioned as was the
un-comfort level of having flammables in that system.

I guess it's all relative.

We are sitting on 15.9 gallons of gasoline with a flash point of -50 degrees
f There is 2.5 gallons of propane that is a gas at -44 degrees f right
behind us (well behind me, I have a westy) We have brake fluid in front of
us, it's a flammable with a high flash point (248 degrees f) but it's still
a flammable.

Springtime most places, not AC weather up here yet but I've read it is some
places, which I guess is why we are talking about AC systems & the like.




Rob

becida@comcast.net
Western Washington State, USA