Vanagon EuroVan
Previous messageNext messagePrevious in topicNext in topicPrevious by same authorNext by same authorPrevious page (May 2012, week 1)Back to main VANAGON pageJoin or leave VANAGON (or change settings)ReplyPost a new messageSearchProportional fontNon-proportional font
Date:         Thu, 3 May 2012 06:48:06 -0400
Reply-To:     "Chris S." <szpejankowski@GMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         "Chris S." <szpejankowski@GMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: was Still lousy gas mileage now TDI conversions
Comments: To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
In-Reply-To:  <4FA210C7.1070606@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

Every time I read a diesel post by mr. Turbovans here it's the same thing. Turbos fail, injection pumps fail, timing belts fail, diesel is expensive, etc.

Well, new gasoline engines are smaller, often turbocharged, have direct injection and may require super unleaded which costs about as much as diesel. Realistically, the price of diesel and super unleaded often carries a 10% penalty over regular. This penalty for diesel may grow slightly higher in the winter.

But diesel engines are at least 30% more efficient than gas and frequently return MPG a bit higher than EPA can manage. As an example my Beetle TDI was about 50% more efficient than a comparable gas model. The truth is the more expensive gas, the more you save.

But I don't expect you to take my word fir it. For some realistic information head over to TDICLUB.COM.

Chris.

Wysłane z iPhone'a

Dnia May 3, 2012 o godz. 0:59 Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM> napisał(a):

> nice informative post. > good to read. > > nice that your diesel is cheaper than gas, like it used to be here.. > seems like years and years that it's been more than gas here in the US. > > in the 90's ..a few times I drove my 5 speed 1.9 TD vanagon ( with a 10 > gallon extra tank ) 600 miles on one load of fuel, and it was ..I still > can't believe this now ...but $ 28.00 US to refill,after 600 miles ! > > fuel was 1.48 per US gallon then. > > scott > > On 5/2/2012 8:42 PM, Jason wrote: >> Most of my cars are diesel. I LOVE the torque and power they make at >> low RPM. I even own a German imported BMW 525TDS. >> >> Here is my motivation: >> >> Here in Canada diesel fuel is actually cheaper than gas. Reg was >> $1.35/L today and diesel $1.25/L. >> I already own a diesel vanagon for parts that I drove for many years >> before putting her down for cancer. >> I already own an AHU complete swap that came out of a $500 parts car. >> Need more power: I find the 1.9L too under powered for my use& >> liking. I'd also like to be able to tow a trailer with it. With a >> chip and big injectors I should be good for sure. I'm tired of drag >> racing tractor trailers uphill! >> >> I figure my overall cost to do the conversion will be under $1000 >> because I own most of the parts already. Just like lego, I have to >> put it together now. I do my own work, own a TIG welder and a hoist! >> >> No problem with the TDI crank gear either, just the AAZ. Timing belts >> are cheap to replace if you do it yourself. I have never a destroyed >> a cylinder head (although I do take proper care of my engines), I have >> a brand new spare that has been on the shelf for many years actually. >> I have personally seen more than a dozen TDIs with over 500K kms >> running strong. One of my co-works has 600k on his 2004 Jetta 1.9PD >> and the valve cover has never been removed. The old 1.6s used to wear >> the rings, but the TDI's seem good for high mileage. Try to get 500k >> out of a boxer without a set of heads or 3. To me TDI's represent >> reliability long term. >> >> Another bonus with the TDI - they are much quieter than the IDI >> engines. I actually enjoy the sound of a TDI loading up at lower RPM >> too. I've been pushing 20PSI on my Cabrio TDI for 3 years no without >> issue! The thing pulls like a freight train. I love the smell of >> BIO diesel when I can get my hands on some. There used to be a place >> where I could buy B100, but its gone. I'm with ya on the alternate >> fuel options.... >> >> So no $10-15K conversion here, I figure it will pay for itself in 1 >> summer of travelling. >> >> Jason >> >> >> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 8:04 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans >> <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote: >>> the same argument can be made about all exotic diesel conversions.. >>> sure ..you might go from say 18ish mpg on pump gas to 27ish we'll say on

>>> pump diesel fuel .. >>> >>> and counting the high cost of acquisition .........plus a failed turbo >>> here and there ...or other serious expenses and failures.. >>> seldom is that money won back or saved on fuel savings by going to a TDI

>>> or whatever in that category, I suspect. >>> >>> That's not why people do them though really . There are other benefits. >>> Just the reward of something you helped create that you're proud of, for

>>> example. >>> On a purely financial basis ....probably the lowest cost to get around >>> occurs when buying a cheap rugged used car, then just driving it, >>> repairing as little as possible. Not safe, and not smart ..but likely >>> nets out at the lowest per mile cost. ) >>> >>> I am starting to like diesels again some...though not on pure pump fuel >>> to the very foul smell ! >>> advantages I see are .. >>> can be less expensive day-to-day to drive, particularly if using veggy >>> oil in the mix. My stock 82 sunroof diesel vanagon with rebuilt 1.6NA >>> engine ...while very modest power wise.. >>> on purely level driving in local use, where I don't go over 50 mph >>> anyway ....barely sips fuel. >>> >>> I think they are more sure footed at low speeds ...diesels, much better >>> for slow crawling, if that is one of the intended uses. >>> >>> I don't like at all that if the timing belt messes up for an instant >>> ..serious and expensive damage occurs. >>> Driven hard.. >>> they eat up cylinder heads ( pre-chamber VW diesels anyway ) .. >>> I am sure they wear out rings and cylinder walls more , especially with >>> a turbo . >>> and ...in some cases .. >>> noise...as in racket ....very unpleasant. I have driven in some horribly

>>> noisy diesel westy's ..that's no fun. >>> >>> it also strikes me that people are happy to be getting really good >>> mileage even if it cost a lot upfront to get there. ... >>> and the fact that the upfront cost of the engine conversion or the car >>> is a huge sum.... >>> just doesn't bother them that much. They are proud of what they >>> invested even. . They are happy to invest say $ 15K in a conversion to >>> get say 6to 10 more mpg. >>> It doesn't really pencil out .. >>> on paper you can show that it will take whatever.......10 years to earn >>> back in fuel savings the extra 10K just spent on the engine conversion >>> .....but seldom are engine conversions done for purely practical reasons. >>> They are rewarding , after all, in many other ways, when done well. >>> >>> just for the fun of it .. >>> run the fuel savings math on a TDI conversion . >>> let's say ....stock waterboxer reubuild is $6K out the door. >>> Fancy TDI conversion is ...the range varies ..say it's $ 14K. >>> $8,000 extra. >>> if the wbxr gets 20mph at 4 per gallon .. >>> and the tdi say 27 mpg at 4.50 per gallon >>> somebody figure that out .. >>> how far you could drive on $8,000 in fuel with a new waterboxer engine >>> at 20 mpg and $ 4 per gal. >>> >>> Take a while to earn that back. >>> Of course a TDI Whatever will have good resale value if it's in good >>> shape, much higher than any waterboxer anything. >>> I like , about diesels.. >>> that we are not totally 'stuck' with The Man about fuel to run it on.. >>> that is one thing very attractive about them all right. >>> >>> at least there's a choice ! >>> but calculate that fuel saving cost ..it doesn't really pencil out I >>> don't think. >>> We drive them for other reasons ..and when it's working right ...some >>> savings on fuel cost is one of the benefits. Not the main one though I >>> don't think. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 5/2/2012 3:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote: >>>> How much fuel can you buy with the cost of converting? Between last >>>> November >>>> and This February I made three trips with the motorhome from New York to >>>> Florida. At some stops I paid as much as $0.80 more per gallon for Diesel >>>> than what Gasoline was going for. Yep, real happy I spent the extra money >>>> for the Diesel. >>>> >>>> Dennis >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of >>>> Jason >>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 5:56 PM >>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>> Subject: Re: Still lousy gas mileage >>>> >>>> I have never been happy with the mileage my van gets, so I am fixing it

>>>> with >>>> a TDI..... Fuel is just getting too costly to let your vehicle >>>> get out of tune. If all else fails check compression? Low >>>> compression will give worse mileage. Take the cat off and look inside >>>> with >>>> a good light too. >>>> >>>> Jason >>>> >>>> On Wed, May 2, 2012 at 5:47 PM, Dennis Haynes<d23haynes57@hotmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>>> That Cat may be a smaller diameter/more restrictive than what belongs.

>>>> While it may reduce performance I don't know if it will affect cruising

>>>> mileage enough to measure. >>>>> Dennis >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On >>>>> Behalf Of Bryan Feddish >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 4:26 PM >>>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM >>>>> Subject: Re: Still lousy gas mileage >>>>> >>>>>>> Just some possibilties like maybe leaky tired injectors?<< >>>>> Those are new and are 2 years old. >>>>> >>>>>>> I'm only assuming that it's tuned up: cap, rotor, plugs, wires and >>>>>>> coil?<< >>>>> All of those are< 6 months old except the coil which is 2 years old. >>>>> >>>>>>> Plugged catalytic converter?<< >>>>> This is on my "maybe" list. it's a 4 year old cheap BD one. Maybe I >>>>> should >>>> swap this out just in case. I've been stranded by a bad cat in the >>>> past.... >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Bryan


Back to: Top of message | Previous page | Main VANAGON page

Please note - During the past 17 years of operation, several gigabytes of Vanagon mail messages have been archived. Searching the entire collection will take up to five minutes to complete. Please be patient!


Return to the archives @ gerry.vanagon.com


The vanagon mailing list archives are copyright (c) 1994-2011, and may not be reproduced without the express written permission of the list administrators. Posting messages to this mailing list grants a license to the mailing list administrators to reproduce the message in a compilation, either printed or electronic. All compilations will be not-for-profit, with any excess proceeds going to the Vanagon mailing list.

Any profits from list compilations go exclusively towards the management and operation of the Vanagon mailing list and vanagon mailing list web site.