Date: Wed, 9 May 2012 00:01:42 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Clutch pedal goes only halfway
In-Reply-To: <390735291.93070.1336522009710.JavaMail.root@sz0094a.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net>
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Wait until the engine with clutch is installed. If everything works and the cylinder does not leak all is good. If one of the cylinders is damaged it will be apparent. While the clutch and brakes use the same reservoir they are completely independent systems afterwards.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Skip
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2012 8:07 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Clutch pedal goes only halfway
Thanks Dennis. Somehow I just now saw your post from yesterday...
Perhaps I wrecked the driven "slave" cylinder by bleeding it prior to the engine (with clutch) installation (by depressing the clutch too far while bleeding?).
Please review what I did tonight. I can either 1. replace new with old (then working) slave, 2. order a new slave, or 3. is there a repair procedure for a slave?
Here's what I did tonight to better define the symptoms:
The SO assisted in bleeding the slave and the two rear drum brakes (previously bled as they are new).
Reminder: my engine is currently at the machine shop and due back later this week. Therefore, I have very nice access to the bell housing and surrounding environs and things. And I've searched thesamba for like symptoms with no luck (anybody have any threads bookmarked on this?)
Observations
1. When initially bleeding the slave, the clutch only goes in just a bit. Then, I open the bleeder, fluid flows, and the clutch goes in all the way (as soon as I open the bleeder on the slave). I had the SO hold the clutch down while fluid flowed, then some air came through. So, I thought: Good, it's the air in the line causing this ruckus.
2. I closed up the bleeder and had SO release the clutch. I repeated the same process a few times with the same results until no air would appear.
3. Then, when SO put the foot on the clutch (with my assumption that all the air was removed from the system), she could depress it only an inch or so (prior to me opening the bleeder).
4. So (with the help of the SO) I bled the rear brakes. I might of released a bit of air, not much.
5. Went back to the slave, re-bled it (no air throughout the process and the clutch would not depress until I loosened the bleed valve). Same thing.
6. When SO depresses the clutch the slave pin does not push down on the clutch lever, by the way. I could feel a wee bit of push, not always. I don't expect push when the bleed is open, but there was no push when SO depresses the pedal and prior to opening the bleed screw.
7. The clutch lever rod (that pushes the throw-out bearing) moves when I turn the lever (albeit with a wee bit of force).
8. So, if you're still reading, I propose two things. First is to remove the new slave and replace with the old slave (it worked prior to engine removal) and see if the old acts like the new. This will determine if I have a defective new slave. Second, build a "pressure bleeder" and pressure bleed all of the brake and clutch hydraulics.
Any wisdom, experience, fact, or humor? I need all of these, please, as I am way ready to get the engine back in and hit the road! Thanks.
Skip
'84 WBXR 1.9L Manual (currently out of the van and getting 96mm pistons, new cam, crank, lifters, and connecting rods)
----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com>
To: 'George Laubach' <skiplaubach@COMCAST.NET>, vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Sent: Mon, 07 May 2012 22:04:30 -0000 (UTC)
Subject: RE: Clutch pedal goes only halfway
Under normal operation the clutch pressure plate pushes the driven (slave), cylinder back in when the pedal is released. Without the pressure plate the driven cylinder will be pushed out by the internal spring and pumping action. Without it being retracted it will bottom out. Continued pressure will ruin both cylinders and possibly blow out one of the lines. When doing brakes keep this in mind. Do not step on the brake pedal with drums removed or calipers out unless the goal is to push the pistons out.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of George Laubach
Sent: Sunday, May 06, 2012 6:22 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Clutch pedal goes only halfway
'84 Westy, 1.9L WBXR
I am less than a week away from installing my 1.9L (to 2.2L GoWesty kit (keeping the 1.9 case)). While the engine has been at the machine shop I've taken the liberty of replacing several 28 year old components.
Specific to the clutch, I replaced the master and slave cylinders, and throw-out bearing. While bleeding the system, I note that the pedal depresses only halfway.
So, what do you think? This is my first time at this, so I don't know if things shape up after everything gets installed, but I need to get this curiosity resolved before I close things up.
I also installed new rear drum brakes (whole system) among other things, and will be installing the VanCafe clutch kit.
Your wisdom, experience, and advice is appreciated.
Skip
Elgin, IL
