Date: Sat, 19 May 2012 14:17:52 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: New Drums
In-Reply-To: <CACK29c=+C4NKkk0=inw_5-Li3F0J6LK1JHaj9OGWVT5LvuqcJg@mail.gmail.com>
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HI STeven,
I 'was maybe' going to mention balance weights.
Here is what I consider normal...
some material is removed from the outer edge of the drum, kinda on a
ridge area, if needed to balance it.
I did have one drum on a van in my shop that was ...
newish,
very of round,
and shockingly to me, had huge balance weight on it ...like 3/4 of an
inch wide, 1/8th inch thick, 4 inches long .
And ..one whack on the edge of that drum to make it tilt and jump off
the flange..
and that weight fell right off.
I don't have to say where that drum was likely made.;
that is the only drum I have seen with any external weight tach-welded
or otherwise attached on the outside of it.
As far as I'm concerned...well made brake drums don't have weights added
to them.
On yours it was probably to make up for denser recycled bear and tin can
material o one side compared to the other.
Quality wise, you have to watch out for this ..
one is price .....I find most parts stores these days a carrying very
inexpesnive parts ..which means low quality usually, and made you know
where.
next is the Brand Name .
Brembo is a traditionally Italian company I believe..but that does not
mean the part is made in Europe.
Take " Koldbenschmidt of Germany " 1.9 TD cylinder heads..
it's "K-schmit of Germany' all right , but it is manufactured in Mexico.
I use OMC brand brake drums made in Italy and they seem fine.
price wise..
I would say 80ish to 90 would be the price for a decent vanagon brake
drum ..
like in a parts store.
60ish means they paid 30 something for it likely.
Below 60ish ..all bets are off.
and generally .auto parts stores are not the best place to get foreign
car parts ..
if it purely a 'foreign car parts' store and you can talk to them about
quality and country of manufacturer that can work out ok.
( the one 30 year old traditionally air-cooled VW parts store in my
area ..
they'll have the cheaper part in stock..the better quality one takes a
day or two for them to get. )
Always develope a relationsihp with one parts person you like and trust ..
that makes a huge difference.
I would rarely buy a Vanagon part from a parts store that knows GM and
Ford mainly.
otherwise ..get parts from dedicated Vanagon parts vendors ..
particularly if they focus on quality rather than low price.
I like Van Cafe for that.
I'd ask for an upgrade in quality turning in the one you just found is
wonky.
and ..as I said...quality brake drums that I get never have balance
weights added to them.
I also paint them ..
and the flange surface after cleaning in high temp flat black stove paint.
( I have yet to see *anyone* treat any metal brake part, drum flange or
whatever, against corrosion, unless I did it. ...)
I also paint the center of the back side of the wheels.
where it gets rusty there. I also put a tiny bit of anti-seize on the
lug nut threads ....many details like that.
No bare metal part is going to be happy long term on a vanagon, they
need some treatment or corrosion protection, and it's so easy and fun to
do.
You'd be surprised how well they stay flat black for a long time,
instead of rusting.
of course...I have to mention that really bad cheap drum above, ...was
on a van that someone bought from a well-known dedicated-to-vaagnons
company. And the rebuilt engine installation work on that van had
significant workmanship issues, as well, like very plainly done-wrong
things here and there . .....though they said they had farmed that
work out and didn't realize how bad that work was . At least they
didn't charge the person for the new propane tank they sold them ..to
help make up for the other goof-ups., to their credit.
Do good careful work and check everything several times ! lol.
scott
www.turbovans.com
On 5/19/2012 7:47 AM, Steven Shelton wrote:
> Interesting that you mention 0.010 mm, Scott. I mounted each drum on the
> scroll chuck of my woodworking lathe and measured the runout.
> Unfortunately, I don't have a dial gauge so I held the depth probe on my
> calipers next to the inside of the drum. It wouldn't measure any runout on
> one of the drums (even though it didn't scrape all the way around) but the
> other drum was 0.010 mm off. This same drum doesn't have and
> balance weights, either. Hmmmmm. Of course, like the drums, my calipers
> are made in China, so who knows how accurate that measurement is.
>
> Thanks for all your suggestions. It's back to the FLAPS for another drum.
> I'll see how the new one measures out before I install it.
>
>
> On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 1:06 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans<
> scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm sure it's possible that someone could get a new drum on and not get
>> it sitting really right on the flange ..
>> or fail to clean scmutz off the flange face ..
>> but 'normally' ..you make sure the two holes in the drum line up with
>> their respective bolt holes in the flange, and get the drum on there
>> correctly.
>> And then ..you turn the drum to see if it turns smoothly ..
>> *surely* anyone installing a drum onto a flange, or anything that turns
>> ..would check that it turns smoothly ...and doesn't wobble.
>>
>> and then if it was wonky anyway ...
>> when the wheel was bolted on , that t would be wonky too.
>> and surely ...anyone doing this work would check that the wheel turns
>> smoothly and straight.
>> ( I've seen someone remove a whole vanagon dash ..
>> and never once check the function of any of the heater control cables
>> ..which I can't imagine ( they were REAL screwed up too ) so I guess
>> people do do work and don't check things ..but man.
>>
>> really ...check *everything* ....everything.
>> if not checking each step of the way ...a body can't do consistently
>> good work.
>>
>> and yes. there can be out-of- round new drums.
>> I use a spare rear wheel housing and stub axle with flange on it ...
>> to jig up a drum in a vice ..
>> then I turn it by hand, with a dial gauge reading out of roundness ,
>> or roundness as the case may be.
>>
>> also ...a small test that may reveal something..
>> while driving, say at 30 mph ...pull on the parking brake pretty hard
>> and see if you feel pulsation there..
>> if you do ..it is for sure associated with one or both rear drums.
>>
>> you can also do that test on the car by putting the drums on the rear
>> wheel flange backwards ... or inside out .
>> then drive it in first gear in the air..
>> rig a pointer ..say a screw driver clamped to a jack stand ..
>> it should be pretty close to round .. a few thou off is probably normal ..
>> but .010" out would be pretty bad I'd say.
>>
>> for reference , a spark plug gap is .028" . to give an idea what .010
>> is if you don't have a dial gauge.
>>
>> Do good careful work. It's all in the details.
>>
>> scott
>> turbovans
>>
>>
>> On 5/18/2012 9:14 PM, Ben T wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Steven,
>>>
>>> As Dennis Haynes just pointed out, the centerbore at flat surface of the
>>> drum can get caught on the edge of the hub. Once torqued down, the drum is
>>> frequently irreparable. I didn't believe it could happen to a new drum
>>> until it did at a local shop working in a Westy for a friend of mine.
>>>
>>>
>>> BenT Drum
>>> sent from my electronic leash
>>>
>>> On May 18, 2012, at 11:20 AM, Steven Shelton<shelton4@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>
>>> I just installed new Brembo drums and SBS shoes in my 1985 Camper. Now
>>>> the
>>>> brake pedal pulsates when I apply the brakes. The only thing I can think
>>>> of that would cause this is out of round drums. Can anyone think
>>>> of anything else that would cause this?
>>>>
