Date: Thu, 24 May 2012 01:05:27 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Why no bolt-on HP upgrades to the 2.1 WBX?
In-Reply-To: <CAEuQn0YBn87KEKUHWiSuzT-ehBRDP+nCmXysj=0_nW6-UN-50Q@mail.gmail.com>
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I often ask the same question regarding Caterpillar diesels as used in motor
homes. There are lots of options for Cummins and even Ford or GM Diesels but
nothing for the Cat. Part of the answer is in manufacturer support. Shortly
after I got my motor home I asked Cat the question and was told quite
bluntly "if you needed more power, you should have bought more engine". Then
their philosophy was explained. For years a major difference leading to the
long term dependability of their engine is that lack of "user" adjustments.
It made sense.
Everything with engine performance is about physics and compromises. To some
extent when it comes to performance the only replacement for cubic inches is
rectangular dollars. The Waterboxer engine really is a purpose built engine
designed to do a specific job. Part of the compromise includes meeting
emissions requirements with a minimal amount of equipment. Note there is no
exhaust gas recirculation and the catalyst is also relatively small. As a
comparison my 1992 600 SEL has EGR, Air injection reaction (air pump into
the exhaust), 4 valves/cylinder with variable intake cam timing and 7 liters
of catalytic converter to take care of the NOX, CO, and HC that 6 liter can
produce when the engine is making those 407 ponies.
The Waterboxer uses the lower compression and mild ignition timing to keep
down NOX and along with those dished pistons allows to engine to operate at
extended load for extended periods without breaking out into a fit of knock
and ping and melting pistons.
Camshafts and ratio rockers can be fitted. Heads can be ported/polished.
Compression can be raised and oversized cylinders and pistons can also be
used. But all of this has a cost and the engine design is really limited
even space wise. The exhaust is very short so gains here are also limited
in effect.
Not sure if I answered your question and I think I am starting to ramble.
Dennis
----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Roland
Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2012 11:32 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Why no bolt-on HP upgrades to the 2.1 WBX?
Ok, so it is now Thursday in Osnabruck, Graz, and SA, and it is the day
before a long weekend, and many be going splittin' for the weekend, and
worried this message may be deemed something that should wait until Friday
but....maybe it is ok to ask.
I was wondering why there are no HP upgrades to the 2.1 WBX. There are so
many other engines that all have upgrades -- intake flow enhancement,
exhaust headers, sparkin' plugs, reworked heads, super charger kits,
lightweight rods/pistons, larger valves, and (oh my!) nitrous?
Anyway, I can't recall any performance upgrades to the 2.1 mentioned here,
or bolt-on kits sold by the knowledgeable vendors (I've bought from all and
so thankful they serve us). I have had a few other cars, and essentially
all have many options to increase engine performance.
it is kinda a poll:
- the 2.1 WBX was a purposeful, optimized design and maxed out the way it
is.
- ya can't do much more with just 2.1 liters?
- requires reprogramming the ECU which nobody knows how to do?
- heads are maxed, no flow increase possible, the material is too thin,
can't tune the head.
- we Vanagon-ers prefer it slow, nobody would invest in a market that
prefers to cruise.
- the owner of 95 HP in a 4,500 lb vehicle would not get excited about 110
HP in a fully loaded 4,999 lb vehicle.
- the 2.1 was a compromise, just a 1,500 CC bug engine patched to sell T3s.
- need to add 2 more cylinders --Porsche got more than 200 hp from it's 2.2
liter 6 cylinder. (and for the interested over 1,000 hp from it's 16
cylinder 917).
- And disclaimer... I know that tencent and gowesty and others offer high HP
WBX, but they aren't really 2.1s anymore, and they require a full rebuild
instead of bolt on performance upgrades.
So what is it about the 2.1?
Why is conversion to some other engine, or total rebuild (same cost as
conversion) the only path to higher HP?
Why can't the 2.1 be improved with some bolt on upgrades?
Thanks
Roland
