Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2012 10:17:37 -0700
Reply-To: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Poppie Jagersand <poppie.jagersand@YAHOO.CA>
Subject: Re: [Diesel-Vanagon] Re: Starter Motor Replacement
In-Reply-To: <1343057724.5210.YahooMailNeo@web112503.mail.gq1.yahoo.com>
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$99 to get your Diesel Vanagon going again sounds good.
I would save the old starter (Presumably the original big starter).
I had an aftermarket starter (not necessarily the same manufacturer as yours) for a while, and examined it, and both the new and old OEM Bosch version:
1. The original 30 year old "big" Bosch is built with incredible attention to detail. The stator and field wiring uses rectangular wire and each wire turn is precisely inserted with minimal twists. Everything is locked in place with a coat of di-electric varnish. Hence the main parts of the motor is very well made. My 30 year old one is in perfect shape.
The wear parts are all replacable.
I have to replace the bushing every 5-10 years. Busdepot sells them (<$1) in addition to the Bosch rebuilders.
I replace brushes about once a decade. Bosch rebuilders sell these ($10-20. They can come as loose brushes or a ready to install brush holder with all 4 brushes)
At time of brush replacement I also check the commutator and lightly sand it flat. A shop could turn it on the lathe if more severely pitted from sparking. Before assembly I clean brushes and coommutator with isopropyl alcohol (which does not harm the varnish on the windings). More detailed posts on rebuilding are in the archives. See:
http://gerry.vanagon.com/cgi-bin/wa.exe?A2=ind0708C&L=vanagon&P=R11856
2. The new "small" Bosch is also well built. It has a 3:1 or so gear reduction so can use a smaller motor with higher RPM. Therefore it is lighter. The motor is a more plain vanilla permanent magnet motor, yet seems to be good enough for the task. These can also be rebuilt.
3. The aftermarket starter I had was not as well built. The aftermarket starters I have seen have the same size and shape as the newer Bosch, but no Bosch part number markings. Mine came with a load test graph (a good sign they tested it). However it didn't last long (maybe a few hundreds of starts compared to tens of thousands for a Bosch). I believe what happened was that the rotor shorted some wires, which then put more heat and load on the starter, shorting more wire loops and damaging the commutator. This could have been due to poor magnet wire or poor winding of the rotor. Loops of wire can short from the varnish melting, or if the coils are not tightly wound, mechanical rubbing of loose wires. A normal starter has a no-load current of 50-70A when run off a battery. When I took this starter out and ran it standalone off a battery it's no load current was in excess of 200A!
So IMHO an aftermarket starter is a good options to get the van running as they are widely available, but it may be good to plan a rebuild of the OEM starter for when the after market one fails. In any case don;t discard the OEM but offer it so someone who can rebuild it or to the list.
Martin
________________________________
From: Oscar Guzmán <oegr1@yahoo.com>
To: "Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com" <Diesel-Vanagon@yahoogroups.com>
Cc: Gnarlodious <gnarlodious@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, July 23, 2012 9:35:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Diesel-Vanagon] Re: Starter Motor Replacement
Hi everyone,
in the past 11 months, my Vanagon was "dead" with a flywheel tooth failure and a "Bendix" (starter driver) damage...
Is hard to find a Diesel Vanagon Flywheel and the correct starter parts for the starter.
My Vanagon came with an old type (big one) starter in very bad condition and was replaced with a Rebuild Bosh SR28X type starter (small one) and for this time I can not get a new starter in all Central America but the prices in the internet are so expensives plus shipping, etc.
Reading this issue about your problems to replace the starter, I got the model numbers from a post and try it on ebay... and voila !!! I can get a website where the starter price is US$99.00, yes this is the price I pay for it. (plus shipping)
I'm so happy to have my Vanagon running again and for furder information on the grup, this is the link direct to the website:
http://www.hansautoparts.com/068911023MDieselStarters.aspx
Is the small one type and works like a charm.
I hope this information will be usefull.
Oscar Guzmán
'71 1.6 Custom Beetle (speedster)
'81 1.6 TD Vanagon
'85 1.8 GTI Cabriolet
'01 1.9 TDi New Beetle (sold)
'87 3.0 MB W124 300D Turbo Diesel
www.cucaratrachas.webs.com
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