Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2012 16:53:37 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Caliper Bleeder Screw: RF Typically Seize More Often?
In-Reply-To: <CAB2RwfgCq2ufZ3idmTGynex4sHrrsQn3jXd=rW2d9ejpdCVNyg@mail.gmail.com>
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Often the right side of a car is a little more tired in the
suspension/brakes than the right side..
more bumps on the right edge of the road etc.
I have seen the opposite though on a very road-salt rusted Westy ...
the left side, spending more time in the heavier concentrations of
winter road salt was considerably more rusted..severely rusted actually,
in the suspension/brakes than was the right side.
Tapping firmly on the top of a bleeder screw with a hammer has some
affect on 'waking up the threads.'
Don't over-do it of course.
If they bled to a hose junction only, then they didn't get new fluid
into the caliper really.
The 'right thing' would have been to call you up ..
inform you about that and *give you choices.*
bleed to a hose junction
carefully work to get that bleed screw turning...
install new rebuilt caliper ..
etc.
AT LEAST INFORM YOU AND GIVE YOU CHOICES !
On the few times I have called a shop to try to talk to them about
something like this ..
being as non-accusatory as I can be ...
they generally act like anyone is crazy to question their work.
They can get quite good at 'saying something to keep you happy' ..
such as 'we did it this way instead and it's fine.'
It's not a genuine complete job ..
that part by itself is not so bad.
That they didn't inform you that as things were they could not do what
the plan was...
Unfortunately people do not know very much in this culture very much
what 'service' is..
serving people for their best interests.
Looking out for your interests in car repair they do.
I have seen 15,000 engine conversion jobs where the conversion shop did
not even mention badly rusted syncro tank fuel straps, that can only be
dealt with while engine and trans are out..
when obviously the right thing to do is inform the customer..
let them choose...
'no just leave it, I'll deal with it later'
'thanks for noticing that, how much more are we talking about ?" .
etc . Is that so hard ?
to be fair, many shops are buried in work ..
and yet that is never an excuse to take a short cut on a job,
or to not inform the customer of something else that is smart to deal
with now.
Mostly it appears to me that many shops 'justify in their minds' on
taking short cuts ...
or not informing ..
then they hone their skills at pushing off a legitimate customer
concern about their less-than-perfect work ..
or communication.
I would try to have a conversation with that shop.
If they do not say some form of ..
"you're right, we should have at least let you know about that stuck
bleeder valve " ( see further below )
to be fair again ..sometimes they do try to reach the customer. and
can't ...so they have to decide themselves so they can clear up the
work bay ..in that case...for a long time loyal good customer who you
know would want it fixed right ..you replace the caliper or whatever.
and even still ....your nervous to spring a suprise higher amount on any
customer .
unless .. I have one like this ..he has never said 'how much is it going
to cost?" ..he has only always said ..
it's for my son who won't have access to vanagon repair ...just fix it
right. For him I know he'll want anything I find not right fixed. .
otherwise ....they should never do unauthorized repairs, in that sense
the did the right thing there. ..
And ..at the first opportunity they should have said .".ok...we got most
of it flushed..but we had to 'work around' a dificulty at one wheel and
it's not quite what we hopped to accomplish "
Then you'd feel they were looking out for you completely.
if they let the van go like the job was done as agreed ..and you had to
find out yourself they didn't and they didn't tell you..
that bordrs on disception.
and all I really care is they acknowledge a misstep, a failure to be
upfront .
If they would just do that ....you know.
Last time I called a tire store about a friends very differert tire
pressures in just-mounted 4 tires....non-matching lug nuts ...
that parts got broken and lost ...that the van pulled to one side after
their work ..
they thought I was crazy to question their sloppy work at all. The
manger just could not get it that they did not do a full careful
complete job.
Be real nice if your guys 'own' this and make it up to you. Like an
effort to get that one bleeder working ..get that brake bleed ...and
maybe something like a free oil change sometime............IF you can
trust them ! lol.
here's my joke saying on it ...Shop speaking -
"You want us to diagnose it carefully, give you choices on levels of
quality of repair, then do the work on time, on budget, with perfect
workmanship ? .........We'd go out of business if we did that."
I hope it all works out nicely !
sincerely, Scott
www.turbovans.com
On 8/2/2012 3:55 PM, neil n wrote:
> Hi all.
>
> Took my '88 Westy to a shop. Shortly after work done, felt a short
> noticeable shudder braking at highway speeds. In checking the shops
> work. (wheel fasteners, etc.), noticed the RF bleeder was untouched.
> It won't turn, the other 3 do. Shop had flushed the brakes. Asked the
> shop about this screw, they said they bled that wheel at a hose union
> (but I can't see any wrench marks at any of those unions...... That's
> another story)
>
> Before taking van to shop, I sprayed penetrating fluid on bleeder
> screws well in advance. Maybe I missed spraying the RF bleeder
> but.....
>
> Is the RF bleeder any more prone to seizing than the LF bleeder?
> Strange question but I'm trying to determine if it's worth tackling
> this part or just wait until I do both calipers, hoses etc.
>
> I saw Alistairs page, and a few comments (thanks Scott) on getting a
> stuck bleeder loose.
>
> What I've done:
>
> - applied penetrating fluid
> - applied heat to caliper body (butane torch, nothing too hot)
> - tapped on the end of the bleeder with a small hammer
> - picked rust/dirt away from threads at caliper body
>
> I plan on wrapping a small rag around the bleeder and soaking it with
> penetrating fluid to keep it all "wet".
>
> Any other tips to loosening the bleeder are welcome!
>
> Neil.
>
>
>
> --
> Neil n
>
> 65 kb image Myford Ready For Assembly http://tinyurl.com/64sx4rp
>
> '88 Slate Blue Westy to be named.
>
> '81 VanaJetta 2.0 "Jaco" http://tubaneil.googlepages.com/
>
> Vanagon VAG Gas I4/VR Swap Google Group:
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/vanagons-with-vw-inline-4-cylinder-gas-engines
>
