Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:10:09 +0000
Reply-To: Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds113519B373B772BAD8ACBDA0AB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Good theory but poor execution, on my part.
After fiddling with
the TPS and the Temp II sensor, I decided to double check the O2 sensor
connection that I thought I had disconnected yesterday. Well, I did,
but the Power connection not the Signal line. - - - When I
disconnected that line as well and went for a drive, all was well.
If
I had disconnected both lines I would have been able to save myself
(and several people who have contributed good suggestions) some time and
energy.
Awhile ago I replaced the old shielded cable with a new one run back to the ECU. It looks to be in good condition still but I suppose I should check.
I still need to replace the O2 sensor. Any real
difference between a generic Bosch where I splice in the VW connectors
and one with the correct connectors already installed?
Thanks for your suggestion.
- Mike
Mike Finkbiner
mike_l_f@hotmail.com
Happiness is a moving target
> From: d23haynes57@hotmail.com
> To: mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: RE: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
> Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 15:30:35 -0400
>
> If it runs fine cold but goes rich after warm up you could have an O2 sensor
> or wiring problem. The simple test when it is choking and hacking it to turn
> the ignition off and back on. If the symptom clears for a short while then
> the o2 sensor wiring is the problem. What to check?
> The green wire to the sensor is a coaxial shielded cable. Peel the cover
> back to see the outer shield. With the sensor disconnected, ignition on,
> check the center lead and outer shield for voltage. Measure to the chassis.
> Form the center wire to the chassis there should be ~.5 volt. From the outer
> shield it needs to be really close to "0". From the center lead to the outer
> shield should be the same voltage as from the center wire to the chassis.
>
> If the center wire shows near 0 it is most likely shorted within that green
> cable. If the outer wire has voltage or does not give a full reading when
> checking from the center wire to it then you have a ground or wiring
> problem. The O2 sensor ground reference is shared with the distributor
> harness. Follow the wires to the distributor pick up coil. Look for the
> brown one. They are often connected at the base of the oil breather tower.
> The plastic tower makes for a lousy connection. Move it. Make sure the wire
> and crimp is in good condition. Any voltage drop here gets added to the
> signal the ECU is looking for from the O2 sensor. Since the sensor can only
> develop ~.8 volt or so a .5 volt drop can be real problem as it will cause
> the ECU to just keep richening up the mixture looking for that signal.
>
> BTW I am surprised that a shop would go through the trouble of replacing the
> cat and muffler and re use the O2 sensor. Now that you've done the super
> duper rich thing that cat is somewhat damaged.
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Mike Finkbiner
> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:59 PM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
>
> I have had my '87 Westy for quite a few years now, and while I have had some
> adventures, I haven't had to be towed before. It's a standard 2WD, with a
> Boston Bob 2.1 liter engine and 4-speed manual.
>
> Yesterday I was headed north, and about thirty miles out of Moscow it
> started to lose power. The engine wouldn't rev up, and started to surge and
> drop. Pressing the pedal all the way to the floor didn't do anything, and I
> couldn't rev up in lower gears. I pulled off and as soon as I got off the
> gas, it died and I had to re-start. I also seemed to smell gasoline.
>
> I sat and thought for a couple of minutes. Earlier this summer a mechanic
> had gone through it while looking for a power steering leak. He replaced
> the fuel filter, and I ended up with a new power steering pump, PS filter,
> and a wrecking yard high pressure line.
>
> Then I drove several hundred miles, to the Puget Sound area, back across the
> North Cascades highway and home with no problems except a noisy muffler,
> getting about 18mpg. I knew the catalytic converter had been rodded out,
> and when I ran into a sale on an OEM muffler and cat, I decided to replace
> them both. The shop which did the work had a lot of problems getting the
> oxygen sensor out of the dead cat, but it seemed to run fine around town.
>
> So, after I pulled over I popped the engine lid and re-started. It seemed
> to be fine, but then after a couple of minutes started running rough. I
> gave it some gas and got a puff of black smoke out of the new tailpipe. I
> shut down, and disconnected the O2 sensor to run on the default mode. After
> that it seemed to run OK idling for a few minutes, and I could rev the
> engine with no problems. No more black smoke. I left the O2 sensor
> disconnected to see if that was the issue.
>
> I got back on the road. For the first five minutes things were fine, but
> then - it started losing power and doing the surge/dip thing. I pushed on
> to the next little town, about five miles away, maxing out at about 45.
> When I pulled off the road it died again.
>
> Towed home on a flatbed it ran fine driving it into the garage.
>
> Terry K suggested the throttle position switch, so, this morning, on a cold
> engine, I dug into that. It had zero resistance at full throttle, full
> resistance through the mid-range, and also at idle. So, I took the throttle
> body off, cleaned it up and found that switch would close at idle if you
> jiggled things. I slightly bent the U on the end of the arm so it touched
> the cam more fully, and it now works fine, full resistance at idle and full
> throttle.
>
> After re-assembly it idled nicely, at about 950, engine sounding smooth. I
> let it warm at idle and drove a few blocks. Ran fine, dropped to idle at
> stoplights, etc. The temp was still a bit below the LED and oil pressure
> above 40, so I took it on the highway. After three to four miles, the temp
> was up and I started up a bit of a hill. The engine started surging a bit,
> and felt down in power. Over the top of the hill it was definitely surging,
> so I pulled over and it wanted to die until I gave it some gas.
>
> Headed back into town at 55, mostly pretty flat and it did the surge/drop
> thing a fair bit, but kept running. In town it wanted to die at stop
> lights. With the window down I could hear it running rough. When I got it
> back into my garage it would run, but rough, as if one or more cylinders
> were cutting out.
>
> I let it cool down a bit, and drove a few blocks in town. It got worse, had
> no power, until I shut down and re-started, then ran rough back to the
> house.
>
> Hmmm.
>
> If you have any suggestions, please PMail me as well as the list. I read
> this in Digest mode.
>
> Thanks!
>
> - Mike
>
>
> Mike Finkbiner
>
> '87 Westy
> Moscow, ID
> mike_l_f@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> Happiness is a moving target
>
>
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