Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2012 18:15:42 -0700
Reply-To: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@TURBOVANS.COM>
Subject: Re: Conversion Choices
In-Reply-To: <663A3047-4428-489F-9493-0A7BAD04D959@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi Mr Ole river rat,
don't know what you've been looking at ..
but on just about *every* inline four VW gas engine..
particularly the sideways mounted engines ..
all accessories are on the oil filter side of the block ..ie.. the right
side in a vanagon.
on the few mounted inline and not sideways stock installations
..Quantum, Fox ...
there may be an accessory on the exhaust side of the engine ..
otherwise ..every last sideways engine FWD vw car has it 'all' on the
'front' or oil filter side of the engine ...
AC, ALT, PS, water pump . Check out any TDI .
and since that is the 'upper' side of the engine when it's tilted over
in a vanagon at 50 degrees, ala diesel vanagon, so it will all fit under
the engine cover, or almost ..
the accessories are almost always on the right side of the engine in a
vanagon.
To do otherwise would be rather hack work IMO ...and I see a bit too
much of that ! lol.
On 9/2/2012 5:55 PM, OlRivrRat wrote:
> Robert
>
> Yet another admission ~ I have never seen a "Stock Inline4
> Vanagon"
> all the ones I've seen have been conversions & they all
>
> have appeared to have most of the engine & intake & exhaust bundle to
> the D'Side of center ~ some I seem to recall even placed
>
> the Alternator, P'S'Pump & ACCompressor all on that side. Unless the
> engine was squatty enough to sit straight up the portion of
>
> the block that surrounds the Cylinders has to be mostly on the D"Side
> as well & don't leave out the Pistons, WristPins & a portion
>
> of the Rods. Certainly the CrankShaft would be OnCenter & a portion of
> the Block & some or all of the OilPan would be to P'Side &
>
> certainly the Batt' being on the P'Side back there would help but
> chances are in a conversion ~ & that is after all what this thread
>
> is supposed to be addressing, the Batt' will be up front, on the
> P'Side for sure, but in the case of a Westy there may well be a 2nd
>
> Batt' under the D'Seat that may just nullify that P'Side gain.
>
> Take a look @ the "coming soon kit from FAS" & click on one of the
> photos to enter the gallery, then go to pic#106 ~ granted
>
> they have @ least placed the Alternator on center & the ACComp to the
> P'Side but to the right of the ACComp there is a whole lot
>
> of DayLight & if the Van doesn't have AC there would be even more. It
> does appear, in another pic, that the entire OilPan is on the
>
> P'Side so that helps.
>
> The VW guys may very well have had the balance in a
> StockDieselVanagon fairly well figured out especially for those places
>
> where the Driver sits on the Right but ACButler wants to know about
> ConversionChoices.
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
>
> On 2 Sep , 2012, at 2:57 PM, Robert Keezer wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> I have never considered the engine balance in thestock Vanagon
>> Diesel compartment as nothing about it looks unbalanced, except
>> mine does, as it has a Jetta intake manifold that reaches the left
>> firewall.But I think it's just an illusion.
>>
>> Here's an explanation I came up with after getting out the scale and
>> measuring tape,
>> based on a stock Diesel Vanagon.
>>
>> In the VW inline four, the crank shaft is at centerline of the
>> vehicle. (looking thru the license plate hole).
>>
>> I just weighed a shortblock, came out to 121 lbs.Cylinder head
>> weighs 33 lbs.
>> The intake manifold about 10 lbs
>>
>> Lets add it all up and say this cylinder head, the intake man, and
>> all that's attached to it weighs 50 lbs.
>>
>> If we remove the cylinder head with intake manifold, we have a cast
>> iron block that has a width of about 15 inches. From the crank
>> centerline, we see about 7 inches of iron block on either side ,
>> with the heaviest part dead center.
>>
>> The block is centered, with equal amounts of it either side of the
>> centerline.
>>
>> Looking at just this it would be obvious that the block, the
>> heaviest part of the engine, in center balanced.
>>
>> Ahh, but wait til you put back the 50 lbs on the left side, you say.
>>
>> Not so fast, grasshopper.!
>>
>> We have on the right of this center line a aluminum oil pan and
>> muffler bracket,half of the muffler, alternator and alternator
>> bracket, right side engine mount,oil cooler, mount and large oil
>> filter that holds a quart of oil, a coolant expansion tank, and
>> battery box and a battery.
>> I weighed it all and it comes to just under 100 lbs.
>>
>> All this is to the to the right of this centerline. This doesn't
>> count the extra weight of the coolant , or the 5 quarts of motor
>> oil. The battery alone weighs 38 lbs.
>>
>>
>> But lets not leave the left side lighter than the right- there's the
>> mounts, the exhaust manifold. That ought to balance the engine and
>> the rear of the van quite well.
>>
>>
>> I'd say the VW engineers had it figured out before it went to the
>> assembly line.
>>
>> Robert.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll admit that I do not know for a fact that an I4 would add
>> weight to the DriversSide but in all that I have seen ~ & it is
>> quite a few ~ the majority
>>
>> of the mass of the engine & intake & exhaust sits on the DriversSide
>> of center which leads me to believe that the weight that would
>> normally be on the
>>
>> PassengerSide if a Boxer was in there is moved over to the
>> DriversSide. An EJ25 with accessories weighs in around 265 & from
>> the info I've been able to
>>
>> find on the www a VWI4 is very slightly more than that & I'd guess
>> that about 1/3rd of that weight would be moved from the P'Side to
>> the D'side in an
>>
>> I4 conversion ~ that would be an extra almost 90lbs that the D'Side
>> (which always has the drivers weight & in the case of a Westy, a lot
>> of WestyStuff)
>>
>> just doesn't need especially way back in the RearEnd where it can be
>> very influential in just how well the back of the bus follows you
>> down the road ~ &
>>
>> if it should be enough weight to cause the Van' to lean to the
>> D'Side that could make the Van' top heavy in that direction as well.
>> All just spec' of course
>>
>> but IMHO worth considering.
>>
>> ORR ~ DeanB
>>
>>
>
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