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Date:         Mon, 3 Sep 2012 23:10:09 +0000
Reply-To:     Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Mike Finkbiner <mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
In-Reply-To:  <BAY152-ds113519B373B772BAD8ACBDA0AB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Good theory but poor execution, on my part.

After fiddling with the TPS and the Temp II sensor, I decided to double check the O2 sensor connection that I thought I had disconnected yesterday. Well, I did, but the Power connection not the Signal line. - - - When I disconnected that line as well and went for a drive, all was well.

If I had disconnected both lines I would have been able to save myself (and several people who have contributed good suggestions) some time and energy.

Awhile ago I replaced the old shielded cable with a new one run back to the ECU. It looks to be in good condition still but I suppose I should check.

I still need to replace the O2 sensor. Any real difference between a generic Bosch where I splice in the VW connectors and one with the correct connectors already installed?

Thanks for your suggestion.

- Mike

Mike Finkbiner

mike_l_f@hotmail.com

Happiness is a moving target

> From: d23haynes57@hotmail.com > To: mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: RE: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long) > Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 15:30:35 -0400 > > If it runs fine cold but goes rich after warm up you could have an O2 sensor > or wiring problem. The simple test when it is choking and hacking it to turn > the ignition off and back on. If the symptom clears for a short while then > the o2 sensor wiring is the problem. What to check? > The green wire to the sensor is a coaxial shielded cable. Peel the cover > back to see the outer shield. With the sensor disconnected, ignition on, > check the center lead and outer shield for voltage. Measure to the chassis. > Form the center wire to the chassis there should be ~.5 volt. From the outer > shield it needs to be really close to "0". From the center lead to the outer > shield should be the same voltage as from the center wire to the chassis. > > If the center wire shows near 0 it is most likely shorted within that green > cable. If the outer wire has voltage or does not give a full reading when > checking from the center wire to it then you have a ground or wiring > problem. The O2 sensor ground reference is shared with the distributor > harness. Follow the wires to the distributor pick up coil. Look for the > brown one. They are often connected at the base of the oil breather tower. > The plastic tower makes for a lousy connection. Move it. Make sure the wire > and crimp is in good condition. Any voltage drop here gets added to the > signal the ECU is looking for from the O2 sensor. Since the sensor can only > develop ~.8 volt or so a .5 volt drop can be real problem as it will cause > the ECU to just keep richening up the mixture looking for that signal. > > BTW I am surprised that a shop would go through the trouble of replacing the > cat and muffler and re use the O2 sensor. Now that you've done the super > duper rich thing that cat is somewhat damaged. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of > Mike Finkbiner > Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:59 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long) > > I have had my '87 Westy for quite a few years now, and while I have had some > adventures, I haven't had to be towed before. It's a standard 2WD, with a > Boston Bob 2.1 liter engine and 4-speed manual. > > Yesterday I was headed north, and about thirty miles out of Moscow it > started to lose power. The engine wouldn't rev up, and started to surge and > drop. Pressing the pedal all the way to the floor didn't do anything, and I > couldn't rev up in lower gears. I pulled off and as soon as I got off the > gas, it died and I had to re-start. I also seemed to smell gasoline. > > I sat and thought for a couple of minutes. Earlier this summer a mechanic > had gone through it while looking for a power steering leak. He replaced > the fuel filter, and I ended up with a new power steering pump, PS filter, > and a wrecking yard high pressure line. > > Then I drove several hundred miles, to the Puget Sound area, back across the > North Cascades highway and home with no problems except a noisy muffler, > getting about 18mpg. I knew the catalytic converter had been rodded out, > and when I ran into a sale on an OEM muffler and cat, I decided to replace > them both. The shop which did the work had a lot of problems getting the > oxygen sensor out of the dead cat, but it seemed to run fine around town. > > So, after I pulled over I popped the engine lid and re-started. It seemed > to be fine, but then after a couple of minutes started running rough. I > gave it some gas and got a puff of black smoke out of the new tailpipe. I > shut down, and disconnected the O2 sensor to run on the default mode. After > that it seemed to run OK idling for a few minutes, and I could rev the > engine with no problems. No more black smoke. I left the O2 sensor > disconnected to see if that was the issue. > > I got back on the road. For the first five minutes things were fine, but > then - it started losing power and doing the surge/dip thing. I pushed on > to the next little town, about five miles away, maxing out at about 45. > When I pulled off the road it died again. > > Towed home on a flatbed it ran fine driving it into the garage. > > Terry K suggested the throttle position switch, so, this morning, on a cold > engine, I dug into that. It had zero resistance at full throttle, full > resistance through the mid-range, and also at idle. So, I took the throttle > body off, cleaned it up and found that switch would close at idle if you > jiggled things. I slightly bent the U on the end of the arm so it touched > the cam more fully, and it now works fine, full resistance at idle and full > throttle. > > After re-assembly it idled nicely, at about 950, engine sounding smooth. I > let it warm at idle and drove a few blocks. Ran fine, dropped to idle at > stoplights, etc. The temp was still a bit below the LED and oil pressure > above 40, so I took it on the highway. After three to four miles, the temp > was up and I started up a bit of a hill. The engine started surging a bit, > and felt down in power. Over the top of the hill it was definitely surging, > so I pulled over and it wanted to die until I gave it some gas. > > Headed back into town at 55, mostly pretty flat and it did the surge/drop > thing a fair bit, but kept running. In town it wanted to die at stop > lights. With the window down I could hear it running rough. When I got it > back into my garage it would run, but rough, as if one or more cylinders > were cutting out. > > I let it cool down a bit, and drove a few blocks in town. It got worse, had > no power, until I shut down and re-started, then ran rough back to the > house. > > Hmmm. > > If you have any suggestions, please PMail me as well as the list. I read > this in Digest mode. > > Thanks! > > - Mike > > > Mike Finkbiner > > '87 Westy > Moscow, ID > mike_l_f@hotmail.com > > > > Happiness is a moving target > >


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