Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 18:43:47 -0600
Reply-To: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET>
Subject: Re: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
In-Reply-To: <COL125-W3169B8F3BE2A7AC638C486CFAB0@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes
The real, Plug-N-Play one, according to RockAuto.com ~ Bosch 13957 ~
is only $52.79. NAPA will
most likely have them but AutoZone or OReilly or Advanced may probably
have a price close to Rocks.
ORR ~ DeanB
On 3 Sep , 2012, at 5:10 PM, Mike Finkbiner wrote:
> Good theory but poor execution, on my part.
>
> After fiddling with
> the TPS and the Temp II sensor, I decided to double check the O2
> sensor
> connection that I thought I had disconnected yesterday. Well, I did,
> but the Power connection not the Signal line. - - - When I
> disconnected that line as well and went for a drive, all was well.
>
> If
> I had disconnected both lines I would have been able to save myself
> (and several people who have contributed good suggestions) some time
> and
> energy.
>
> Awhile ago I replaced the old shielded cable with a new one run back
> to the ECU. It looks to be in good condition still but I suppose I
> should check.
>
> I still need to replace the O2 sensor. Any real
> difference between a generic Bosch where I splice in the VW connectors
> and one with the correct connectors already installed?
>
> Thanks for your suggestion.
>
> - Mike
>
> Mike Finkbiner
>
> mike_l_f@hotmail.com
>
>
>
> Happiness is a moving target
>
>> From: d23haynes57@hotmail.com
>> To: mike_l_f@HOTMAIL.COM; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: RE: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle
>> (Long)
>> Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 15:30:35 -0400
>>
>> If it runs fine cold but goes rich after warm up you could have an
>> O2 sensor
>> or wiring problem. The simple test when it is choking and hacking
>> it to turn
>> the ignition off and back on. If the symptom clears for a short
>> while then
>> the o2 sensor wiring is the problem. What to check?
>> The green wire to the sensor is a coaxial shielded cable. Peel the
>> cover
>> back to see the outer shield. With the sensor disconnected,
>> ignition on,
>> check the center lead and outer shield for voltage. Measure to the
>> chassis.
>> Form the center wire to the chassis there should be ~.5 volt. From
>> the outer
>> shield it needs to be really close to "0". From the center lead to
>> the outer
>> shield should be the same voltage as from the center wire to the
>> chassis.
>>
>> If the center wire shows near 0 it is most likely shorted within
>> that green
>> cable. If the outer wire has voltage or does not give a full
>> reading when
>> checking from the center wire to it then you have a ground or wiring
>> problem. The O2 sensor ground reference is shared with the
>> distributor
>> harness. Follow the wires to the distributor pick up coil. Look for
>> the
>> brown one. They are often connected at the base of the oil breather
>> tower.
>> The plastic tower makes for a lousy connection. Move it. Make sure
>> the wire
>> and crimp is in good condition. Any voltage drop here gets added to
>> the
>> signal the ECU is looking for from the O2 sensor. Since the sensor
>> can only
>> develop ~.8 volt or so a .5 volt drop can be real problem as it
>> will cause
>> the ECU to just keep richening up the mixture looking for that
>> signal.
>>
>> BTW I am surprised that a shop would go through the trouble of
>> replacing the
>> cat and muffler and re use the O2 sensor. Now that you've done the
>> super
>> duper rich thing that cat is somewhat damaged.
>>
>> Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
>> Behalf Of
>> Mike Finkbiner
>> Sent: Monday, September 03, 2012 2:59 PM
>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>> Subject: '87 Westy 2.1L, Running Rough, No Power, Dies at Idle (Long)
>>
>> I have had my '87 Westy for quite a few years now, and while I have
>> had some
>> adventures, I haven't had to be towed before. It's a standard 2WD,
>> with a
>> Boston Bob 2.1 liter engine and 4-speed manual.
>>
>> Yesterday I was headed north, and about thirty miles out of Moscow it
>> started to lose power. The engine wouldn't rev up, and started to
>> surge and
>> drop. Pressing the pedal all the way to the floor didn't do
>> anything, and I
>> couldn't rev up in lower gears. I pulled off and as soon as I got
>> off the
>> gas, it died and I had to re-start. I also seemed to smell gasoline.
>>
>> I sat and thought for a couple of minutes. Earlier this summer a
>> mechanic
>> had gone through it while looking for a power steering leak. He
>> replaced
>> the fuel filter, and I ended up with a new power steering pump, PS
>> filter,
>> and a wrecking yard high pressure line.
>>
>> Then I drove several hundred miles, to the Puget Sound area, back
>> across the
>> North Cascades highway and home with no problems except a noisy
>> muffler,
>> getting about 18mpg. I knew the catalytic converter had been
>> rodded out,
>> and when I ran into a sale on an OEM muffler and cat, I decided to
>> replace
>> them both. The shop which did the work had a lot of problems
>> getting the
>> oxygen sensor out of the dead cat, but it seemed to run fine around
>> town.
>>
>> So, after I pulled over I popped the engine lid and re-started. It
>> seemed
>> to be fine, but then after a couple of minutes started running
>> rough. I
>> gave it some gas and got a puff of black smoke out of the new
>> tailpipe. I
>> shut down, and disconnected the O2 sensor to run on the default
>> mode. After
>> that it seemed to run OK idling for a few minutes, and I could rev
>> the
>> engine with no problems. No more black smoke. I left the O2 sensor
>> disconnected to see if that was the issue.
>>
>> I got back on the road. For the first five minutes things were
>> fine, but
>> then - it started losing power and doing the surge/dip thing. I
>> pushed on
>> to the next little town, about five miles away, maxing out at about
>> 45.
>> When I pulled off the road it died again.
>>
>> Towed home on a flatbed it ran fine driving it into the garage.
>>
>> Terry K suggested the throttle position switch, so, this morning,
>> on a cold
>> engine, I dug into that. It had zero resistance at full throttle,
>> full
>> resistance through the mid-range, and also at idle. So, I took the
>> throttle
>> body off, cleaned it up and found that switch would close at idle
>> if you
>> jiggled things. I slightly bent the U on the end of the arm so it
>> touched
>> the cam more fully, and it now works fine, full resistance at idle
>> and full
>> throttle.
>>
>> After re-assembly it idled nicely, at about 950, engine sounding
>> smooth. I
>> let it warm at idle and drove a few blocks. Ran fine, dropped to
>> idle at
>> stoplights, etc. The temp was still a bit below the LED and oil
>> pressure
>> above 40, so I took it on the highway. After three to four miles,
>> the temp
>> was up and I started up a bit of a hill. The engine started
>> surging a bit,
>> and felt down in power. Over the top of the hill it was definitely
>> surging,
>> so I pulled over and it wanted to die until I gave it some gas.
>>
>> Headed back into town at 55, mostly pretty flat and it did the
>> surge/drop
>> thing a fair bit, but kept running. In town it wanted to die at stop
>> lights. With the window down I could hear it running rough. When
>> I got it
>> back into my garage it would run, but rough, as if one or more
>> cylinders
>> were cutting out.
>>
>> I let it cool down a bit, and drove a few blocks in town. It got
>> worse, had
>> no power, until I shut down and re-started, then ran rough back to
>> the
>> house.
>>
>> Hmmm.
>>
>> If you have any suggestions, please PMail me as well as the list.
>> I read
>> this in Digest mode.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> - Mike
>>
>>
>> Mike Finkbiner
>>
>> '87 Westy
>> Moscow, ID
>> mike_l_f@hotmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Happiness is a moving target
>>
>>
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