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Date:         Mon, 10 Sep 2012 16:33:27 -0400
Reply-To:     Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject:      Re: Low compression, more test results-busaid inying used vans!
Comments: To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Fun Bus is a1987 Syncro Westy I purchased new. At 254k the engine has out lived 3 transmissions. The valve covers have been off 3 times. Once when VW re tourqed the heads, once due to valve covers rusting through and leaking, and the last time when for some unknown reason a push rod fell out of the rocker arm socket! The engine has towed s model A Ford from Tennessee to New York and a Vanagon from Vermont to NY on a dolly. I lost track of the number of trips up and down the East Coast. It has been to California (89) and Alaska (93). I drive 65-75+. How much more should I expect? I do cheat, Mobil 1, 15-50 and an oil cooler that works.

Dennis

Sent from my Windows Phone ________________________________ From: Stuart MacMillan Sent: 9/10/2012 12:40 PM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Low compression, more test results-busaid inying used vans!

As I’ve mentioned before, I had 230k on my ’84 with one head re-work at 60k, and it was still running fine, if weak. What I see today is that rebuilt engines (at least the 2.1s) seem to be far less reliable. Apparently there is no way to duplicate the factory build quality (aftermarket heads, cylinders, and pistons all seem to have assorted problems). My last engine in my ’84 was a 2.1 Jerry at NW Con Rod built for me 12 years ago, and the rings never seated. He re-did it ‘cuz the jugs and rings he bought were bad, but I still had to bring it to him again. I sold it with about 30k on it, and I also added the stock oil cooler in a remote set up.

By continuous duty I mean extended travel for weeks on end, something most of us don’t do. Larry Chase’s “full timer” experiences with a series of failed engines was extremely sad.

That said, given the cost of conversions I’ll likely have another 1.9 in this engine soon. I’ll be prowling the Subaru conversion shops for a core!

Stuart

From: Jim Felder [mailto:jim.felder@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 11:14 AM To: Stuart MacMillan; Vanagon mailing list Subject: Re: Low compression, more test results-busaid inying used vans!

With all due respect to your particular experiences, the statement that the Waterboxer wasn't meant for continuous duty would be news to the thousands of owners with 20+ year old Vanagons. They never sold really well to gein with, so they are not common, and neither are people who know how to work on them. But somehow in the Darwinian automotive universe, they have survived like very few other cars with a network of suppliers and specialist to keep them going. Only a tiny percent have some other kind of engine in them besides a 1.6 diesel or a Waterboxer. I'd say it is a remarkable package if kept in good shape. What ends up getting the Waterboxer is not so much thrown rods or dropped valves but death by overheating. The cooling system is complex and extensive (not to mention its length) and the opportunity to leak are numerous. On a scale of finicky to bulletproof when it comes to surviving an overheating event, I'd give it a 6. Not great, not terrible.

If it were such a bad engine, we wouldn't be here. I have noticed that lately there seems to be a rash of failures, but look at the age on them.

Jim

I'm done with the WBX, it isn't designed for continuous duty.

Stuart

-----Original Message----- From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Dave Mcneely Sent: Saturday, September 08, 2012 6:54 AM To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM Subject: Re: Low compression, more test results-busaid inying used vans!

How many of us, except for those who are able to do all the work on their vans themselves, don't have a $20k (or more) van? Wife and I now call ours the $1M van. Even those who do the work themselves, if they put in one of the engines sold by rebuilders, end up with a figure something like you mentioned. Take a look at Larry's RoadHaus van payout, and that was 10 years ago and doesn't include maintenance since. mcneely

---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote: > As I have said in the past the most important part of purchasing a > used vehicle is to find out why it is/was for sale. For some reason > the past/current owner no longer wants it! > > Since you only had this a few months you now know one reason. I doubt > this "just" happened. Depending on what you paid and how you go about > the conversion and then all the other stuff to follow you too may soon > have that $20K Camper. > > Dennis > > -----Original Message----- > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On > Behalf Of Stuart MacMillan > Sent: Friday, September 07, 2012 10:52 PM > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM > Subject: Low compression, more test results > > Well, for those who have been following by email thread about making > the mistake of checking compression on my 140k mile original engine > (90-150-100-130) I’ve done some more tests. > > > > 1. Valves were zero lash or 1 turn in, no valve noise, timing dead on > > 2. Manifold vacuum is 12” Hg with ±1” tick (should be steady 17-21) > > 3. No detectable vacuum leaks (propane test), all vacuum hoses new. > > 4. 22% leak down on #1, could hear leakage all three places, but > exhaust and intake were louder than the dipstick, with the exhaust > being the worst. (Should have used the decibel meter on my iPhone, > but I didn’t want to get it greasy ;-) ). Didn’t bother testing the others after this result. > > 5. Does not burn oil (in 1000 miles at least) Plugs that came in it > were clean. > > 6. PO installed reman AFM recently > > 7. Idles smooth (as any of them anyway), runs well, no coolant leaks, > but has poor acceleration and poor gas mileage (~15 mpg highway). > > > > Looks like it’s got some leaking valves. No surprise this rig is worn > out, I assumed it was, but I could drive it home at least. I hope I > can get a few thousand more miles out of it so I can save some dough for a conversion! > > > > Sometimes ignorance is bliss, but never for long. I waited until > after my planned summer trips to check the engine condition, so I was > blissfully ignorant on purpose. I’m still planning a couple of fall > trips nearby though. What the hell, I’ve got AAA premier. > > > > Stuart > > ’85 Westy, purchased in May

-- David McNeely


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