Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 13:41:24 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: For you paddlers--a petition
In-Reply-To: <DEE05EFD-DCA6-4F4B-B0D2-07DF6CA15F02@comcast.net>
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The source you cite states the legal status according to the author's understanding. Many streams that would meet the definition of "Navigable in Fact" have been deemed non-navigable by a court, and practice in Oklahoma allows regulatory authorities in the state to follow that precedent in designating other streams as non-navigable. Unless one has the money to fight all the way up the court chain into federal courts, the stream remains non-navigable. And any time one encounters that riparian landowner with the firearm, the stream in question is non-navigable. In practice in fact, the landowner doesn't need to have a firearm. He just needs to appeal to the local law enforcement entity, whom he can help get elected or defeated.
One stream in particular in Oklahoma, the Baron Fork, variously with the term River or Creek appended to its name: It is navigable in fact, as shown by me and others floating it numerous times. One has the right to access any public stream from a public right of way, for example a road crossing. I was in the habit of parking on the public right of way adjacent to U.S. Highway 59 where it crosses Baron Fork, and walking to the stream to fish. A landowner didn't like that, and called out the local sheriff. I was told that I was trespassing, and fined. I had never been off the right of way with my vehicle, and was in a public stream when the landowner came along. I checked the right of way designations, measured the width of the right of way, showed with plats that I had never left the right of way and that I was on public property (a navigable stream) when the landowner accosted me. No matter. The local court declared that I had trespassed when I parked, and had trespassed when I walked on the bed of what it said was a non-navigable stream.
Next time I passed the location, large boulders had been placed to prevent a vehicle from parking on that public right of way. I inquired locally about that, and learned that the county highway department had placed them there. I had done nothing except park my vehicle on the public right of way, in a location where that was a local tradition as a matter of fact, and access a public stream to fish for publicly owned fish.
Oklahoma Department of Tourism and Recreation, and Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation cooperate with landowners in denying access by the public to streams that they have a legitimate right to be on. Most streams in the state, whether navigable in fact or not, are treated as non-navigable by the state.
mcneely
---- OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@COMCAST.NET> wrote:
> This from AmericanRivers.org
>
> 4) Who owns America’s rivers?
>
> You do! Rivers that are physically navigable by canoe, kayak, and raft
> are in the public domain, up to the high water mark. Access to the
> rivers may be over private land, so you have to find a public access
> point, but once you’re on that river you’re home free. So get out
> there Americans, and enjoy your rivers!
>
> This is more in depth from NationOrganizationForRivers ~ NORS
>
> http://www.nationalrivers.org/us-law-who-owns.htm
>
> http://www.nationalrivers.org/us-law-menu.htm
>
> ORR ~ DeanB
>
>
>
> On 14 Sep , 2012, at 7:24 AM, Mark Dearing wrote:
>
> > Hello Jim think that is bad try being in Virginia where they can
> > close a
> > class 5 whitewater creek using a Kings grant ( if a single person
> > owns both
> > sides he can claim the whole creek),which is what has happened to
> > johns
> > creek . This creek is one of the best,drops 165 ft a mile for 4.5
> > miles, 35
> > named rapids, bambi meets godzilla being one. he did this after the
> > AWA
> > had bought property and built a parking lot and change house. damn
> > shame
> > later mark d
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/14/2012 9:04:30 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > jim.felder@GMAIL.COM writes:
> >
> > I hope this is OK with the moderators.
> >
> > I have an online petition going to try to make the US Army Corps of
> > Engineers reverse their decision to close the locks on the Alabama
> > rivers to
> > recreational traffic. The link is
> > <http://www.change.org/petitions/alabama-scenic-river-trail-push-back-against-closing-alabama-river-locks-to-recreational-
> > traffic>
> >
> > Sent from my diesel Westy in Chickasabogue Alabama
--
David McNeely
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