Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:50:38 -0400
Reply-To: Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Larry Alofs <lalofs@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes
down after filling the system.
In-Reply-To: <801F03C2-7811-48D4-BF26-DE97355687B4@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Gases are less soluble in hot water than cold. If you ever heat water
in a glass beaker like in chem lab, you see bubbles coming out while
the temp is still below the boiling point. The air is being driven
out, reducing the dissolved oxygen.
Maybe the best approach for those of us who are real fanatics is to
start with distilled water or water from a dehumidifier to reduce
mineral content and then heat it just to the boiling point before
using it to mix our coolant. No shaking; avoid entraining any air.
:-)
Larry A.
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 2:41 AM, OlRivrRat <OlRivrRat@comcast.net> wrote:
> Scott ~ you may not have looked far enough
>
> From Dictionary.com
>
> en·train2 [en-treyn]
> verb (used with object)
>
> 1. Chemistry . (of a substance, as a vapor) to carry along (a dissimilar
> substance, as drops of liquid) during a given process, as evaporation or
> distillation.
>
> 2. (of a liquid) to trap (bubbles).
>
> 3. Meteorology . to transfer (air) into an organized air current from the
> surrounding atmosphere ( opposed to detrain).
>
>
>
> On 15 Sep , 2012, at 12:16 AM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans wrote:
>
>> Hi Dennis,
>> I know you said you are not a writer.
>> 'entrained' means to put aboard a train - dictionary.com.
>>
>> yes..entrapped air in fresh water/coolant.
>>
>> lol...'has went' is properly expressed as 'has gone' ..as in 'the
>> trucking industry has gone that way' for example.
>>
>> hmmm. I suppose adding coolant puts entrapped air into a cooling
>> system...
>> and that 'could' lead to more corrosion.
>> So tell me...
>> if a system uses coolant slightly, for no readily apparent reason ..
>> like the majority of water-cooled vanagons do ..
>> what is one supposed to do .........not add coolant ?
>>
>> what I find is ............that air gradually works it's way out ..
>> I find that when a cooling system is opened up ..
>> it takes up to 6 warm-up cool-down cycles for things to stabilize.
>> and ..
>> if one just tops up the pressure bottle at each cool down cycle after
>> opening the cooling system ..do that several times ...top up there if
>> there's much of an air space for the first few warm-cool cycles
>> .......that works just great.
>>
>> about oxygen causing more corrosion ..
>> few people seem to recognize the cleverness and effectiveness of this
>> method..
>> and I have been having excellent results with minimal or No cooling
>> system corrosion by adding to my coolant mixture a little bit of water
>> soluble oil ( machinist's cutting oil ) as a water pump lubricant and
>> rust inhibitor.
>> That flat works Baby ! I've only been doing it about 20 years..
>> and it wasn't even my idea, I read it somewhere, a professional
>> automotive trade magazine perhaps.
>>
>> If you are going to entrain, please tell us where you are going !
>> scott
>> www.turbovans.com
>>
>>
>> On 9/14/2012 8:40 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
>>>
>>> Fresh water/coolant contains some amount of entrained air. After filling
>>> the
>>> heating of the coolant will drive this air out and at some point it will
>>> leave the system and be replaced with coolant in a properly operating
>>> system. Anyone experienced with large boiler/industrial heating systems
>>> knows about this and the use of air/vapor separators. It becomes more
>>> obvious in the Vanagon since there is so much capacity compared to the
>>> size
>>> of the expansion/overflow tanks.
>>>
>>> This entrained air/oxygen is why systems that regularly have coolant
>>> added
>>> end up with so much internal corrosion. Every time you add coolant water,
>>> you add fresh oxygen. This is also one of the advantages of long life
>>> coolants and why the auto/truck industry has went this way. New vehicle,
>>> get
>>> the air/oxygen out of the coolant and let it be. In 5 years/100,000 miles
>>> it
>>> will need a water pump, hose, heater core or maybe a head gasket anyway.
>>>
>>> Don't believe this works! Ask anyone on this list that owns a house with
>>> baseboard heat when the last was they changed the plain water in their
>>> boilers and baseboards?
>>>
>>> Dennis
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf
>>> Of
>>> Scott Daniel - Turbovans
>>> Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:56 PM
>>> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
>>> Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate
>>>
>>> one suggestion..
>>> fill your license plate bottle with whatever coolant mixture you use.
>>>
>>> another is ...in my world, it takes up to 4 warm-up-cool down cycles for
>>> air
>>> to get out, coolant to get in ..
>>> I 'know' proper bleeding should make that not be so ..
>>> but it is anyway, in my world.
>>>
>>> I would never give someone a van back after touching the cooling system
>>> in
>>> any way until I had seen it go through several warm-up cool down cycles.
>>> Period.
>>>
>>> re the smell...
>>> it's always a good idea to smell in the left upper vent every time you
>>> park
>>> the van, as any smells...like coolant, raw gas, or burning oil will be
>>> readily apparent there.
>>> At least LOOK around in the engine compartment..
>>> there is always some 'residual burn off' affect...
>>> coolant spilled on exhaust or the engine ....it shouldn't take 'too long'
>>> though for that effect to go away.
>>>
>>> When you have a vanagon worked on ...
>>> it's not like 'oh, it's fine now, I don't have to think about it' ..
>>> No ...it's the other way around...
>>> "It was just worked on ..nothing counts until I see several successful
>>> sorties go by ..
>>> AND I've looked at the area worked on ...for tools left there, for loose
>>> things not tightened ...etc. etc. etc. "
>>>
>>> you know the old saying ....sometimes there isn't time to do it really
>>> right
>>> the first time..
>>> but there's always time to do it right later.
>>>
>>> top up your license plate bottle to the full level line ...
>>> look around the engine and under the van for any drips .
>>> and really ....
>>> the smart thing to do is check the cooling system for a few days after
>>> having it opened up or coolant changed.
>>> I always tell people..
>>> it is normal that it may pull coolant out of the license plate bottle at
>>> first ..for a few warm-up cool down cycles..
>>> and guess what else..
>>> what the shop explains to the customer to empower them to operate their
>>> van
>>> successfully ..
>>> is MORE IMPORTANT than the work itself !
>>> in my world anyway.
>>> < after all..........someone pays, they expect to get what they paid for.
>>> There is no excuse for any shop to not produce that.>
>>>
>>> Scott
>>> www.turbovans.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/14/2012 9:59 AM, Donna Skarloken wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Happy Friday - I just picked up my 87 Syncro last night from a
>>>> reputable garage where I had the coolant system flushed and replaced.
>>>> It was late and dark so I didn't check the coolant before I left the
>>>> garage and had to drive about 25 miles home. All seemed well, except
>>>> when I parked and shut off the motor I could smell coolant VERY
>>>> strongly.
>>>>
>>>> This morning I was all set to go to work but decided to take a look at
>>>> the coolant level behind the license plate because that strong coolant
>>>> smell bothered me and I was unable to check it the night before. I
>>>> discover NO coolant in the tank behind the license plate. I had to go
>>>> to work so could not do a further inspection, and it was still dark out.
>>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>> I have not had any problem with low level or no coolant in this bottle
>>>> prior to taking it to the shop to have the coolant flushed. (I left a
>>>> voicemail for the mechanic; he is quite busy so I am not sure what
>>>> time today that he will get back to me and of course I am stressed out
>>>> about this since I spent a whole bunch of money at that shop this
>>>> week. The shop does specialize in Vanagons, otherwise I would not have
>>>
>>> taken there).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, and have a great Friday and weekend.
>>>>
>>>> Donna, 87 Syncro
>>>>
>
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