Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 09:41:02 -0500
Reply-To: mcneely4@COX.NET
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dave Mcneely <mcneely4@COX.NET>
Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes
down after filling the system.
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds15057400EF6DB14DE6BD44A0970@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Happy to do so. This is an old and often employed usage. Was surprised to see it questioned. mcneely
---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Thank you for supporting me!
>
> Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mcneely4@cox.net [mailto:mcneely4@cox.net]
> Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 10:09 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM; Dennis Haynes
> Subject: Re: [VANAGON] No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes down after filling the system.
>
> "Entrained" also means "carried along," as bubbles in a liquid flowing in a flume or pipe may be entrained:
>
> http://www.thefreedictionary.com/entrained
>
> ---- Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
> > Scott,
> > It is not normal for the cooling system to require regular top offs.
> > Except for some evaporation from that tank by the license plate there
> > should be no loss. If you're losing coolant you have a leak or the
> > pressure cap is not doing its job. The most likely unseen or unknown
> > leaker are the heater cores, especially the front one. I would say if
> > you topping more than a few times a year you have an issue.
> >
> > As for water soluble oil I see that as a contaminant and with modern
> > coolants additional lubricants aren't needed. Coolant also suitable
> > for Diesel engines do have more wetting agents and eliminate the need
> > of "water wetter" type products. The latest version of this stuff
> > (Final Charge) is designed for 5 year 600,000 mile operation. One down
> > side is the reduced surface tension (wetting capabilities) also make
> > leaks leak faster. These products are usually sold pre-mixed.
> > Otherwise it is strongly recommended to use distilled water. Water
> > quality is often more of the problem than the choice of antifreeze.
> >
> > Maybe entrained was not a good choice of words. How about fresh,
> > especially from the tap or hose after pumped, churned and if from a
> > municipal supply has added chemicals including corrosive chlorine has
> > some level of dissolved oxygen in it?
> >
> > Point is I was just trying to explain your observation of having to
> > top off the system after a major refill and I see the same situation.
> > I explain this to the customer and provide some coolant mix for them
> > to top it off over the day or two. I also make sure to pressure test
> > the system and cap. I at least check for hard hoses every time I see a vehicle.
> >
> > Dennis
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> > Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2012 2:16 AM
> > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate-why it goes
> > down after filling the system.
> >
> > Hi Dennis,
> > I know you said you are not a writer.
> > 'entrained' means to put aboard a train - dictionary.com.
> >
> > yes..entrapped air in fresh water/coolant.
> >
> > lol...'has went' is properly expressed as 'has gone' ..as in 'the
> > trucking industry has gone that way' for example.
> >
> > hmmm. I suppose adding coolant puts entrapped air into a cooling
> > system...
> > and that 'could' lead to more corrosion.
> > So tell me...
> > if a system uses coolant slightly, for no readily apparent reason ..
> > like the majority of water-cooled vanagons do ..
> > what is one supposed to do .........not add coolant ?
> >
> > what I find is ............that air gradually works it's way out ..
> > I find that when a cooling system is opened up ..
> > it takes up to 6 warm-up cool-down cycles for things to stabilize.
> > and ..
> > if one just tops up the pressure bottle at each cool down cycle after
> > opening the cooling system ..do that several times ...top up there if
> > there's much of an air space for the first few warm-cool cycles
> > .......that works just great.
> >
> > about oxygen causing more corrosion ..
> > few people seem to recognize the cleverness and effectiveness of this
> > method..
> > and I have been having excellent results with minimal or No cooling
> > system corrosion by adding to my coolant mixture a little bit of water
> > soluble oil ( machinist's cutting oil ) as a water pump lubricant and rust inhibitor.
> > That flat works Baby ! I've only been doing it about 20 years..
> > and it wasn't even my idea, I read it somewhere, a professional
> > automotive trade magazine perhaps.
> >
> > If you are going to entrain, please tell us where you are going !
> > scott
> > www.turbovans.com
> >
> >
> > On 9/14/2012 8:40 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> > > Fresh water/coolant contains some amount of entrained air. After
> > > filling the heating of the coolant will drive this air out and at
> > > some point it will leave the system and be replaced with coolant in
> > > a properly operating system. Anyone experienced with large
> > > boiler/industrial heating systems knows about this and the use of
> > > air/vapor separators. It becomes more obvious in the Vanagon since
> > > there is so much capacity compared to the size of the
> > > expansion/overflow
> > tanks.
> > >
> > > This entrained air/oxygen is why systems that regularly have coolant
> > > added end up with so much internal corrosion. Every time you add
> > > coolant water, you add fresh oxygen. This is also one of the
> > > advantages of long life coolants and why the auto/truck industry has
> > > went this way. New vehicle, get the air/oxygen out of the coolant
> > > and let it be. In 5 years/100,000 miles it will need a water pump,
> > > hose,
> > heater core or maybe a head gasket anyway.
> > >
> > > Don't believe this works! Ask anyone on this list that owns a house
> > > with baseboard heat when the last was they changed the plain water
> > > in their boilers and baseboards?
> > >
> > > Dennis
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On
> > > Behalf Of Scott Daniel - Turbovans
> > > Sent: Friday, September 14, 2012 2:56 PM
> > > To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> > > Subject: Re: No Coolant in Small Tank Behind License Plate
> > >
> > > one suggestion..
> > > fill your license plate bottle with whatever coolant mixture you use.
> > >
> > > another is ...in my world, it takes up to 4 warm-up-cool down cycles
> > > for air to get out, coolant to get in ..
> > > I 'know' proper bleeding should make that not be so ..
> > > but it is anyway, in my world.
> > >
> > > I would never give someone a van back after touching the cooling
> > > system in any way until I had seen it go through several warm-up
> > > cool down
> > cycles.
> > > Period.
> > >
> > > re the smell...
> > > it's always a good idea to smell in the left upper vent every time
> > > you park the van, as any smells...like coolant, raw gas, or burning
> > > oil will be readily apparent there.
> > > At least LOOK around in the engine compartment..
> > > there is always some 'residual burn off' affect...
> > > coolant spilled on exhaust or the engine ....it shouldn't take 'too long'
> > > though for that effect to go away.
> > >
> > > When you have a vanagon worked on ...
> > > it's not like 'oh, it's fine now, I don't have to think about it' ..
> > > No ...it's the other way around...
> > > "It was just worked on ..nothing counts until I see several
> > > successful sorties go by ..
> > > AND I've looked at the area worked on ...for tools left there, for
> > > loose things not tightened ...etc. etc. etc. "
> > >
> > > you know the old saying ....sometimes there isn't time to do it
> > > really right the first time..
> > > but there's always time to do it right later.
> > >
> > > top up your license plate bottle to the full level line ...
> > > look around the engine and under the van for any drips .
> > > and really ....
> > > the smart thing to do is check the cooling system for a few days
> > > after having it opened up or coolant changed.
> > > I always tell people..
> > > it is normal that it may pull coolant out of the license plate
> > > bottle at first ..for a few warm-up cool down cycles..
> > > and guess what else..
> > > what the shop explains to the customer to empower them to operate
> > > their van successfully ..
> > > is MORE IMPORTANT than the work itself !
> > > in my world anyway.
> > > < after all..........someone pays, they expect to get what they paid for.
> > > There is no excuse for any shop to not produce that.>
> > >
> > > Scott
> > > www.turbovans.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/14/2012 9:59 AM, Donna Skarloken wrote:
> > >> Happy Friday - I just picked up my 87 Syncro last night from a
> > >> reputable garage where I had the coolant system flushed and replaced.
> > >> It was late and dark so I didn't check the coolant before I left
> > >> the garage and had to drive about 25 miles home. All seemed well,
> > >> except when I parked and shut off the motor I could smell coolant VERY strongly.
> > >>
> > >> This morning I was all set to go to work but decided to take a look
> > >> at the coolant level behind the license plate because that strong
> > >> coolant smell bothered me and I was unable to check it the night
> > >> before. I discover NO coolant in the tank behind the license plate.
> > >> I had to go to work so could not do a further inspection, and it
> > >> was
> > still dark out.
> > >>
> > >> Any suggestions?
> > >>
> > >> I have not had any problem with low level or no coolant in this
> > >> bottle prior to taking it to the shop to have the coolant flushed.
> > >> (I left a voicemail for the mechanic; he is quite busy so I am not
> > >> sure what time today that he will get back to me and of course I am
> > >> stressed out about this since I spent a whole bunch of money at
> > >> that shop this week. The shop does specialize in Vanagons,
> > >> otherwise I would not have
> > > taken there).
> > >> Thanks, and have a great Friday and weekend.
> > >>
> > >> Donna, 87 Syncro
> > >>
>
> --
> David McNeely
>
--
David McNeely
| 
