Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2012 14:38:06 -0400
Reply-To: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Dennis Haynes <d23haynes57@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: She's Home! (Was: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start)
In-Reply-To: <AE9F08ECBDB8478B8EF310920EB288A8@ntdev.corp.microsoft.com>
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ECU like most things electronic can fail suddenly. All it takes is for a single component to either short or open that is all she wrote. It is rare for auto ECU to fail suddenly but it does happen. Often there is an outside cause such as a battery or alternator issue or someone doing something silly like testing the alternator by disconnecting the battery while it is running. Also when using battery chargers, be sure to disconnect the battery if the charger voltage can go above 15 volts or if it is a poorly filtered charger that puts out a lot of "ripple". Corrosion of the wires inside the insulation is now becoming a common problem. Wires can even test good with meters but may not be able to carry the current load. The power for the ECU comes from a wire to the ignition coil. If the ends are green at all cut back and replace what is needed.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Preston Jr.
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 10:44 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: She's Home! (Was: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start)
Correct, there was way too much fuel getting into the intake and cylinders.
We also walked through the electrical system testing, checking and cleaning grounds, checked the hall sensor, coil to plugs, replaced the temp II, everything step by step from end to end. I'd never heard of an ECU just dying like that. At least I've got her into the driveway now so I can get to work. First things is an oil and filter change, tune-up and timing check, and exhaust repair (collector is cracked clean through, exhaust pipe is toast, and going to replace the cat for good measure). Already got my order into GoWesty for a few bits.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis Haynes
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 5:28 AM
To: 'Don Preston Jr.' ; vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: RE: She's Home! (Was: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start)
When the engine starts with the injectors unplugged that is a sign the engine was flooded. I wasn't the injectors running out of fuel but rather the excess fuel being burned out from the intake manifold and cylinders.
Engine flooding can be a serious issue. Oil dilution is just the start but it is possible to fill the cylinders enough to hydraulically lock the engine. Fuel does not compress.
Yes it is possible for the ECU to fail causing excess fuel especially during start up. A bad temp 2 sensor can add to this. A low or defective battery can cause some ECU confusion during cranking. Poor connections, grounds, contacts at the ECU connector can all be a problem. Bad hall sensor or a defective distributor can also add extra pulses causing extra injection pulses and excess fuel also.
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of Don Preston Jr.
Sent: Sunday, September 16, 2012 12:05 AM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: She's Home! (Was: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start)
Hi all,
Just wanted to give a shout out to the list and say thank you for the help previously, and to let you know that Betsy has made it home!
After a busy summer, the current owners and I were finally able to sync up a couple of weeks ago and went through the entire fuel system, finding that plenty of fuel was getting to the cylinders. We ran out of time, so in between, I did some research and tought perhaps the fuel pressure regulator might be out, so picked up and new one and we tried it today, but no go. We were able to get the engine to start up with all injectors unplugged, until they ran out of fuel of course. So back to square one.
We had previously checked the entire ignition system, so were perplexed.
Digging through the Bentley I was looking for a way to test the injectors, but there's no test. We decided to track the electronics from the injectors back to the ECU, and after running all tests in the Bentley, things looked perfect. Voltage and resistance to each injector were fine. The only thing we could think of was perhaps a bad ECU.
Thankfully NorthWesty down in Renton was open today and they stayed around for a bit after closing time to let me race down and pick up a known good ECU out of a bus that had had a conversion done. Plugged it in and voila, she lives again!! So glad because it that didn't work I was completely out of ideas.
So now Betsy is back home. My son is at his Mom's and has no idea He and I have missed her since the day we sold her back in '04 and I know he's going to flip out when he gets home tomorrow to find her parked out front. I'm still amazed by the seemingly random events which brought me into contact with her current owner, who also happens to be some pretty amazing people (and now friends). Really looking forward to being back in the family, rolling up my sleeves and giving the old girl some much-needed TLC this winter and on the road this spring. Yay!
Don Preston
Seattle, WA
'87 Wolfsburg ASI, "Betsy"
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Preston
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 9:02 PM
To: Chris S.
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start
Good point, I didn't pull the injectors. I remember in the past placing them into spray paint caps and turning over the motor to see if they spray.
Thanks for the help, I'll give this a try next time I'm over there.
-Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Chris S.
Sent: Saturday, May 12, 2012 8:58 PM
To: Don Preston
Cc: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: '87 Vanagon turns and turns but won't start
I would start with removing injectors from their ports and cranking the engine while someone else observes their function. Don't blow yourself up or shoot any gas in your eyes, though.
Chris.
Wysłane z iPhone'a
Dnia May 12, 2012 o godz. 22:44 Don Preston <dj@FOKUST.COM> napisał(a):
> Hello everyone, been a long time...
>
> So, I’m back, kinda. :-) Some of you may remember me and my ‘87
> Vanagon ASI “Betsy” from a few years back. I actually sold her as I
> was moving out of country back in ‘04. Well, long story short, I’ve
> recently come in contact with her again and trying to get her back on
> the road. It’s been a few years since I last worked on any van, and
> the Bentley is missing, so I’m hoping you good folks might have some
> advice.
>
> Current owner tells me that the engine “just died” a few weeks back.
> When trying to start it up the engine turns and turns but won’t fire.
> We were unable to check compression because the gauge I have won’t
> read high enough.
> We spent a couple hours today troubleshooting everything we could
> think of, cleaning wire connections, checking plugs, etc.
>
>> All fuses checked and good.
>> AFM connections good.
>> Removed and cleaned (replacing two corroded ones) all coil connections.
>> Spark at distributor cap to center and all four cylinder ports
>> #1 & #3 spark plugs dry, #2 & #4 wet
>> Hall sensor plug removed, cleaned and good.
>
> Any idea on what to try next?
>
> Thank you!!
>
> Don Preston
> Ballard, WA
