Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2012 09:23:03 -0500
Reply-To: JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: How to fix a leaking banjo fitting
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds17864F7C2BF5F8A6F5DB97A0840@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Dennis,
To quote James T. Kirk in a conversation with Scotty in Star Trek -
Search for Spock - "The barn door has been fixed after the horse has
come home!" - or something like that. LOL!
The leak was repaired via a new washer. But that is good to know about
the Loctite 518. Thanks for that tip.
John
On 10/3/2012 7:24 PM, Dennis Haynes wrote:
> After this discussion what you really need is some Loctite 518,
> (http://apps.ellsworth.com/library/Library/TDS/en/TDS04979.pdf)
> And the 7471 activator. Just a little bit will seal these things right up
> even with re-used seal washers.
>
> Dennis
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
> Alistair Bell
> Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2012 11:41 AM
> To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
> Subject: Re: How to fix a leaking banjo fitting
>
> Yeah, it is not vanagon content except that if I have success in bending the
> 6061 for the boat project I'm doing, then I can use the experience making
> some stuff for the van :)
>
> Thing is, in the workshop it is hard to do such controlled temp control that
> you outline below.
>
> To get back to vans, a few months ago I made a crude skid plate from some Al
> sheet found in scrapyard. Material had marking indicating it was used for
> hull construction, but no markings to indicate heat treatment or alloy. It
> might have been 5052, but did not seem as "gummy" as that stuff often is. I
> bent it as is, not a very big bend, but it bent surprisingly easily and with
> no stress marks that I could see.
>
> pics here:
>
> http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/vanagon-syncro-bash-plates-project/
> http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/vanagon-syncro-bash-plate-project-fin
> ished/
>
> alistair
>
>
> On 2012-10-03, at 8:07 AM, Ed wrote:
>
>> Alistair,
>>
>> I don't wish to drag this out longer but my comments were only for
>> emergency recovery of some very low stressed sealing washers, not
>> bending larger aluminum pipe. I make no suggestions on how to handle
>> larger pieces of aluminum.
>>
>> I would, however, like to point out that at least one internet source
>> of unknown reliability ("Annealing" section of
>> http://www.mlevel3.com/BCIT/heat
>> treat.htm) recommends "Cool at uncontrolled rate in air" to anneal
>> "Cold Worked Materials" of 6061 alloy. For "Heat Treated Material"
>> slowly cooling at "28°C per hour from the annealing temp down to
>> 260°C. Subsequent rate is unimportant." is recommended for 6061 alloy.
>>
>>
>> I don't have anything else to contribute to this thread.
>>
>> Thanks for your comments,
>> Ed
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 07:06:16 -0700, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess we we will just have to agree to disagree. I would heat the
>>> copper
>> or Aluminium washers and quench them. Well, even Bob Hoover agrees
>> (http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.ca/2006/11/vw-annealing-copper-washers
>> .html)
>>>
>>> I'm going to be annealing sections of some 6061 1" pipe, either today
>>> or
>> tomorrow, so that I can bend parts of it. A bit different than
>> washers, very unwieldy for quenching, I'll see how it goes.
>>>
>>> cheers
>>>
>>> alistair
>>>
>>>
>>> On 2012-10-03, at 5:36 AM, Ed wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alistair,
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your comments.
>>>>
>>>> However, quenching is not required for annealing of these metals.
>>>> Copper and aluminum may be annealed by heating and then either
>>>> quenching OR cooling slowly. The behavior of some aluminum alloys
>>>> may differ slightly according to their composition, but in general, this
> procedure applies.
>>>>
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)
>>>> http://www.fournierenterprises.com/Annealing.pdf
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I still stand by my recommendation that copper and aluminum sealing
>>>> washers should be replaced but, if necessary, their lifetime may be
>>>> extended by the following procedure:
>>>>
>>>> "In an emergency you can remove the sealing washers and heat them
>>>> with a propane torch, allowing them to cool without quenching."
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Ed
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:10:30 -0700, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> i'd agree that you could anneal to regain softness of washer but
>>>>> disagree,
>>>> Ed, in your annealing method for aluminum and copper. Both those
>>>> metals anneal by quenching, not slow cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> alistair
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 2012-10-02, at 2:46 PM, Ed wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The sealing washers are probably work hardened and are no longer
>>>>>> soft
>> enough
>>>>>> to make a good seal. Replace them as they are ideally one use items.
>>>>>> That's why you get a new one for the oil plug when you buy an oil
> filter.
>>>>>> In an emergency you can remove the sealing washers and heat them
>>>>>> with a propane torch, allowing them to cool without quenching.
>>>>>> This will restore the softness of both aluminum and copper sealing
>>>>>> washers and allow them to seal without excessive force.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Ed
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:02:38 -0500, JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM>
> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS pump is leaking at the washer where the hollow bolt passes
>>>>>>> through the banjo fitting on the pressure side. I made sure the
>>>>>>> bolt IS NOT loose. So I need to do something. Any suggestions?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John
>
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