Date:         Wed, 3 Oct 2012 08:41:14 -0700
Reply-To:     Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Sender:       Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From:         Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA>
Subject:      Re: How to fix a leaking banjo fitting
Comments: To: Ed <email99@BELLSOUTH.NET>
In-Reply-To:  <20121003152534.3FD4B164041@cds027.dcs.int.inet>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Yeah, it is not vanagon content except that if I have success in bending the 6061 for the boat project I'm doing, then I can use the experience making some stuff for the van :)

Thing is, in the workshop it is hard to do such controlled temp control that you outline below. 

To get back to vans, a few months ago I made a crude skid plate from some Al sheet found in scrapyard. Material had marking indicating it was used for hull construction, but no markings to indicate heat treatment or alloy. It might have been 5052, but did not seem as "gummy" as that stuff often is. I bent it as is, not a very big bend, but it bent surprisingly easily and with no stress marks that I could see.

pics here:

http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/06/22/vanagon-syncro-bash-plates-project/

http://shufti.wordpress.com/2012/06/24/vanagon-syncro-bash-plate-project-finished/

alistair


On 2012-10-03, at 8:07 AM, Ed wrote:

> Alistair,
> 
> I don't wish to drag this out longer but my comments were only for emergency
> recovery of some very low stressed sealing washers, not bending larger
> aluminum pipe.  I make no suggestions on how to handle larger pieces of
> aluminum.
> 
> I would, however, like to point out that at least one internet source of
> unknown reliability ("Annealing" section of http://www.mlevel3.com/BCIT/heat
> treat.htm) recommends "Cool at uncontrolled rate in air" to anneal "Cold
> Worked Materials" of 6061 alloy.  For "Heat Treated Material" slowly cooling
> at "28°C per hour from the annealing temp down to 260°C. Subsequent rate is
> unimportant." is recommended for 6061 alloy.
> 
> 
> I don't have anything else to contribute to this thread.
> 
> Thanks for your comments,
> Ed
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 3 Oct 2012 07:06:16 -0700, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
> 
>> I guess we we will just have to agree to disagree. I would heat the copper
> or Aluminium washers and quench them. Well, even Bob Hoover agrees
> (http://bobhooversblog.blogspot.ca/2006/11/vw-annealing-copper-washers.html)
>> 
>> I'm going to be annealing sections of some 6061 1" pipe, either today or
> tomorrow, so that I can bend parts of it. A bit different than washers, very
> unwieldy for quenching, I'll see how it goes.
>> 
>> cheers
>> 
>> alistair
>> 
>> 
>> On 2012-10-03, at 5:36 AM, Ed wrote:
>> 
>>> Alistair,
>>> 
>>> Thanks for your comments.
>>> 
>>> However, quenching is not required for annealing of these metals.  Copper
>>> and aluminum may be annealed by heating and then either quenching OR cooling
>>> slowly.  The behavior of some aluminum alloys may differ slightly according
>>> to their composition, but in general, this procedure applies.
>>> 
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annealing_(metallurgy)
>>> http://www.fournierenterprises.com/Annealing.pdf
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I still stand by my recommendation that copper and aluminum sealing washers
>>> should be replaced but, if necessary, their lifetime may be extended by the
>>> following procedure:
>>> 
>>> "In an emergency you can remove the sealing washers and heat them with a
>>> propane torch, allowing them to cool without quenching."
>>> 
>>> Regards,
>>> Ed
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 18:10:30 -0700, Alistair Bell <albell@SHAW.CA> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> i'd agree that you could anneal to regain softness of washer but disagree,
>>> Ed, in your annealing method for aluminum and copper. Both those metals
>>> anneal by quenching, not slow cool.
>>>> 
>>>> alistair
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 2012-10-02, at 2:46 PM, Ed wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> The sealing washers are probably work hardened and are no longer soft
> enough
>>>>> to make a good seal.  Replace them as they are ideally one use items.
>>>>> That's why you get a new one for the oil plug when you buy an oil filter.
>>>>> In an emergency you can remove the sealing washers and heat them with a
>>>>> propane torch, allowing them to cool without quenching.  This will restore
>>>>> the softness of both aluminum and copper sealing washers and allow them to
>>>>> seal without excessive force.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ed
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, 2 Oct 2012 16:02:38 -0500, JRodgers <jrodgers113@GMAIL.COM> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> PS pump is leaking at the washer where the hollow bolt passes through
>>>>>> the banjo fitting on the pressure side. I made sure the bolt IS NOT
>>>>>> loose. So I need to do something. Any suggestions?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> John