Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2012 10:34:30 -0400
Reply-To: Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Marc Perdue <mcperdue@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Darn idle, stalling, running rich...
In-Reply-To: <5075EE5B.3030602@turbovans.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I didn't know enough about how the O2 sensor works to know that. Thanks!
You use a different thermostat in the summer and winter? I've never heard
of that . . . So, the concept here is that the 87 C t-stat will allow the
engine to warm up to operating temp more quickly, right? That would be
helpful... Knock on wood, but I've NEVER had an over-heating problem with
my van. I've had NUMEROUS cooling system failures, mind you . . .
Ordering a new t-stat and Temp II sensor now...
I don't know if there's a different procedure now, but back when I have a
Ford truck with a 4-barrel carb, I would spray cleaning fluid or ether on
the vacuum hoses to test them for leaks. This didn't have any effect on the
van, nor did spraying any of the air intake parts. So either this doesn't
work or I don't have a vacuum or air leak.
Still have to complete the ground check per the BTDT page . . .
Thanks for your good advice!!
Marc
On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <
scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
> I'm sure you must realize the two wire connector is just for the oxygen
> sensor heat element.
> Normally not a lot of need to check that.
>
> the single wire is the Signal of course.
> A new german t-stat might not be a bad idea.
> I use the 87 C one in winter.
>
> I haven't seen that a lot myself - oil breather tower as a ground, but
> always change that to solid metal, that ground.
> the bare spade connector on the side of the distributor ...not used these
> days.
> Originally was to ground out a metal cover that fit over the distrubutor
> cap - for radio noise/interference suppression.
> Almost never see one anymore. So disregard that spade terminal.
>
> What keeps you from trying a new Temp Sensor II ?
> Always gotta check for vacuum leaks for sure, they can be very illusive.
> The only failures I see in AFM's are 'uneven' acceleration ..
> or just plain crapping out and will barely go,
> or a slight hiccup while driving steadily.
> Eventually ..a good rebuilt one is the way to go.
>
> Scott
> www.turbovans.com
>
>
> On 10/10/2012 2:19 PM, Marc Perdue wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> Finally got a chance to look at a couple of things and don't have a
> solution yet . . .
>
> O2 sensor--I had forgotten that Keith had replaced this when I had a
> problem where the van stalled when it was raining hard. Keith siliconed the
> two-wire connector closed to keep water out of it, so I couldn't disconnect
> that to test . . . easily. Maybe later. I disconnected the single wire with
> the spade lug and that had no effect.
>
> Disconnected the idle control valve, no change.
>
> The temp needle on my instrument panel gauge seldom goes to midway; it
> usually gets to just below the red blinky light (no, it's not blinking now)
> when I've been driving for a while. As you pointed out, I'm driving such a
> short distance to work now, that it never really warms up completely, I
> don't think. The vent system gets warm air coming out about 2/3 of the way
> to work.
>
> While playing with stuff today, I disconnected the Hall sender and the
> connector that goes into it is partially broken . . . Also, I've heard
> people talk about the ground wire that goes from the base of the
> distributor to the oil breather tower; there isn't one on my van. There's a
> male spade lug connector on the distributor base, but no wire attached...
>
> The fact of it running differently when hot and cold sure is nagging at me
> and screaming Temp II sensor . . .
>
> Tonight, I think I'm going to play around with spraying some stuff looking
> for vacuum/air leaks and spraying water looking for other "fluid" leaks.
>
> I also still want to look more closely at the AFM too . . .
>
> To be continued...
> Marc
>
>
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>
> hi ..
> Google 'shorted Oxygen sensor coax on Vanagon' ..
> something like that.
> As said, have not seen that myself actually ..
> but I've seen that thick green coaxial cable replaced..
> and it the center signal wire was shorted to ground ..that would cause all
> kinds of havoc.
>
> Something obviously isn't right.
> It 'should' ..start instantly and idle a little fast and smoothly.
> And drive with fine power immediately.
> I always recommend against sitting with it idling cold, to 'warm it up.'
> There's no load on the engine ....just bad for the oil and the exhaust
> system.
>
> Is it running fully up to Temp hot ? Very important.
> You likely said Temp Sensor II .....and some are cheaper than others ..
> I've seen them be OK cold , wonky hot.
>
> Longer or uphill route to work would be nice.
> but it should run totally perfectly completely cold. Or medium warm ..in
> all modes.
> If it doesn't ..
> 'It's a blockage or leakage of fluids or electrons' .
>
> It always is - - and often more than one blockage or leakage.
> 'fluids' includes gases and vacuum of course, not just liquids.
>
> scottwww.turbovans.com
>
>
> On 10/6/2012 7:01 PM, Marc Perdue wrote:
>
> Scott,
>
> You're absolutely right; the driving conditions are horrible for any car;
> it never gets warmed up properly. Not sure what to do about that though. I
> used to live 15 miles from town and the van ran pretty well then, but my
> marriage didn't. So, now I live in town, happily.
>
> My modus transportati is this: I seldom drive the van as my new wife and I
> commute together. I have a new son, as of three weeks ago. My wife stays
> home for now and I'm driving the van every day again, but less than 10
> miles a day. My other use for the van is driving it to festivals, 1.5 - 5
> hours away, but that is infrequent and only during the summer.
>
> My wife would probably not like this used as justification for getting
> another old BMW, but that's a possibility . . .
>
> I don't understand your comment about tapping in a new coax near the ECU .
> . . Could you elaborate on that?
>
> Zero valve lash cold was Bob Donalds' spec for his big valve engine. I
> don't know enough about the inner workings of the engine to be able to tell
> you why.
>
> Regarding the work done in Staunton, Keith set the valves and said to bring
> it back in 500 miles to have them rechecked. I did. That was about 1,000
> miles ago. Having had that done, the van runs great on the highway, or did
> for a while, but it seems to be getting worse the more I drive it the short
> distances. Maybe I will consider a longer route to work . . . Still, the
> biggest problem I'm having is at the end of the day and the van has to run
> long enough to get to a higher speed route to go home. That's getting
> harder to do.
>
> That Zetec engine is starting to look pretty good these days . . .
> Marc
>
> On Sat, Oct 6, 2012 at 4:53 PM, Scott Daniel - Turbovans <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> <scottdaniel@turbovans.com> wrote:
>
>
> Just want to comment , that only 3 miles to work is a very undisearable
> mode to operate a vanagon in.
>
> Will try to keep this story short. College student woman calls me ...87 or
> vanagon smoking badly.
> I go check it out ....was concerned about possibly leaking injector/s fuel
> in the cylinders so had it towed to me.
> I got it all running right without much more than inspecting, cleaning,
> some adjusting ..
> maybe an oil change .. This was wintertime too.
> When I called her to talk about what was going on with the van I said ..
> " I bet you drive this van 7 blocks to the Food Co-op, shop, then drive
> that same short distance back.'
>
> she said ..yep ..that's right.
> I said, you can't do that successfully with a vanagon, particulairly in
> the winter. Or if it does tolearte that type of sue ...it sure shortens
> the life of the engine.
> Might be better to take a longer route to work.
> Operating an engine so it never gets fully warmed up, or rarely gets fully
> warmed up is really rough on it.
>
> re your symptoms ..
> have not seen it myself but I read about shorted oxygen sensor signal
> wires, and have seen a new coax tapped in near the ECU once or twice. Might
> consider that.
>
> re the 'zero valve lash' ..
> that is backing the rocker arm screw out until the hydraulically lifter
> 'cushion'part isn't doing anything ?
> In any case..
> if it runs right after someone does that adjustment ...I would think
> pretty hard abut why that is. Might be a clue there.
>
> fwiw..I have seen waterboxer 2.1's run fairly well with the Idle Valve
> and oxygen sensor disconnected . Like not be all that bad . I much
> prefer to have those working though.
> Have you tried it with oxygen sensor disconnected ?
>
> It's not clear how you had it working fine once ...after Stauntun...
> and then how long before it starting acting not right again ?
>
> good luck !
> scott
>
>
> On 10/5/2012 3:44 PM, Marc Perdue wrote:
>
> I think I'm with everybody on the list in terms of having been chasing idle
> issues from day one with my van. I just found the excellent post on BTDT
> and am going to go through that process on my van this weekend.
>
> Here's what's up: I've an '87 Westy, auto, that I originally replaced the
> tranny in due to PO putting gear oil in it. I've had this particular
> problem since I've owned the van (2003 maybe?). I start the van in the
> morning. It usually dies a few times before I can get it moving and then
> once or twice more before it warms up. It's usually running okay by the
> time I get to work, three miles away. In the evening, when I get off work,
> it runs rough as a cob and will only smooth out if I can get the revs up
> above 2500. Above that, it runs fine. Problem is, most of the streets
> nearest work have a 25 mph or lower speed limit, so the revs don't get that
> high. Once I get a mile or so from work, it seems to run better, though
> still lacking in power until I get on the bypass (55 mph speed limit).
>
> Now, here are the things that I've done over the years, and any one of
> these could be a problem yet again I suppose, save for the idle control
> valve:
> Cleaned all grounds, per y'all's recommendations
> Replace Temp II sensor
> Replace O2 sensor, several times
> Replace exhaust, several times
> Replace engine with Boston Bob (I miss him) big valve engine after throwing
> a rod through the crankcase
> Replace idle stabilizer module (NOT new)
> Replace ECU (NOT new)
> Cleaned idle control valve many times and just replaced it with a brand new
> one
> Checked and adjusted throttle switch
> Replaced AFM (NOT new)
> Replaced throttle body boot
> Replaced distributor cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires
> Checked timing somewhere along the way
>
> Incidentally, my van was running its best when I took it to a shop and
> insisted that they adjust the valves to zero lash cold, per Bob Donalds.
> I've since had the same done by Keith (last name escaping me) in Staunton,
> VA, and it's usually run quite well after that, getting up to 18 mpg and
> gobs of power (relatively speaking, of course). But I haven't done the work
> commute after that to test this particular idle problem.
>
> As I said, I'm going to clean all the grounds again per the BTDT post, but
> do you all have any other ideas? This is darn frustrating.
>
> Thanks much! And it's good to "see" many familiar faces are still here.
> Marc Perdue
>
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