Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2012 14:30:56 -0800
Reply-To: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Sender: Vanagon Mailing List <vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com>
From: Stuart MacMillan <stuartmacm@GMAIL.COM>
Subject: Re: Engine oil
In-Reply-To: <BAY152-ds567DF8648B3858913F09EA0650@phx.gbl>
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This is one of those topics that's on every old car discussion site. It
reminds me of the valve seat recession issue everyone feared when lead was
removed from our gas. Turned out not to be a problem with our MGBs. You
can buy ZDDP from several on line suppliers, but I'm not convinced it's
worth the trouble and cost.
Stuart
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Haynes
Sent: Saturday, November 03, 2012 8:38 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Engine oil
Direct copy/paste from Bob is the Oil Guy.
"Concern: People are worried about the SM oils not having as much ZDDP as
the SL and older oils. The reason ZDDP has been used for years is not
because of its superior performance but rather its low cost and dual
function as an antioxidant. It also has anticorrosive properties.
There are other additives. Some newer oils do not have any ZDDP, and they
are excellent products. Just the same, I prefer oils with ZDP for now. The
research shows that 0.03 is all that is needed and has the same function as
higher levels. The only reason to have more is because your engine is
consuming the ZDDP secondary to borderline lubrication from oil alone.
And lastly, too much can be corrosive itself and has shown in some tests to
actually increase wear."
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Vanagon Mailing List [mailto:vanagon@gerry.vanagon.com] On Behalf Of
Jim Arnott
Sent: Saturday, November 3, 2012 9:03 PM
To: vanagon@GERRY.VANAGON.COM
Subject: Re: Engine oil
Dave, et al;
The Internet consensus seems to be that the bobistheoilguy website is the
'resident expert' on automobile lubrication. I do not wish to get into a
long drawn out discussion rehashing information that is freely available. I
have read the comments regarding ZDDP and modern motor oils on the
aforementioned website as well as various other sites (including camshaft
grinders such as Bruce Crower and Dave
Schneider.) I have made, what is to me, an educated decision to use a motor
oil with the highest concentration of ZDDP in MY vehicles. You are more than
welcome to research the subject as fully as you desire and draw your own
conclusions.
< http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/> is a great place to start
then Google, "When Good Cams Go Bad" for contradicting information.
Spend an evening doing the research and as I said, draw your own
conclusions. (BTW & IIRC, Bob is the Oil Guy recommends SAE 0W30 oil as it
flows well cold. Not in any vehicle I own, thank you.)
Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice.
Regards,
Jim
Right knows no boundaries and justice no frontiers.
--Learned Hand
On Nov 3, 2012, at 4:48 PM, Dave Mcneely wrote:
> Jim and others, my understanding is that the ZDDP concentration in
> modern oils is the same as it was in the 1950s (about 600 ppm), when
> it was introduced to protect the valve and tappet design then current.
> The concentration was increased later for a different reason, having
> to do with detergent properties of oil. Since catalytic converters
> have been required, the ZDDP concentration has been dropping to keep
> the converter functioning for 150k miles, but it is still adequate,
> with other changes in oil formulations, to protect the valves in older
> vehicles. In fact, if I am not mistaken, I got that information from
> the same GM author that your citation references.
>
> I am stating this from memory, rather than from reviewing the original
> report I read right now, but I do think I am remembering correctly.
> The particular link you provided only gives data on oils, but the
> report I read (same author) discusses backwards compatibility of
> "star burst" oils (the modern service rated oils with the starburst
> symbol like), and the testing and results for oil service ratings
>
> Basically, the report referred to the "myth" that the ZDDP levels in
> modern oils are too low to protect older engines.
>
> Correct me if I am wrong. If so, I hope you will explain more
> completely than I have. mcneely
>
> ---- Jim Arnott <jrasite@EONI.COM> wrote:
>> Jack,
>>
>> 5W40 Rotella T6 synthetic. That big Arkansas box store. $20/gal. And
>> no.... the oil specified in the '84 owner's manual is no longer
>> manufactured. As engines have moved away from a flat tappet design,
>> manufacturers have changed the oil specifications. Typically removing
>> the zinc (ZDDP) necessary for reduced cam wear in our engines. Diesel
>> spec oils have the maximum in currently produced lubricating oil.
>> Rotella T6 synthetic has the highest concentration of all current
>> mass-
>> produced motor oils.
>>
>> <
>> http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Numb
>> er=2330040#Post2330040
>>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>> Kindness in words creates confidence. Kindness in thinking creates
>> profoundness. Kindness in giving creates love.
>> --Lao Tzu
>>
>> On Nov 2, 2012, at 9:27 PM, Rocket J Squirrel wrote:
>>
>>> I'll need to bust out the owner's manual to see what they recommend
>>> for the Cold Season. Nights down to mid-teens (F), days up to 40s.
>>> Is this ca. 1984 manual still my guide to all things engine oil?
>>> --
>>> Jack "Rocket j Squirrel" Elliott
>>> 1984 Westfalia, auto trans,
>>> Bend, Ore.
>
> --
> David McNeely
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